Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
LIBRARY:TutorialsVideo TutorialsReviewsInterviewsEditorialsFeaturesBusinessAuthorsRSS Feed

Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again

COW Library : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate : Mark Raudonis : Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
Share on Facebook
CreativeCOW presents Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again -- Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate Feature


Los Angeles California USA

©2012 CreativeCOW.net. All rights reserved.


The inside story of reality TV giants Bunim/Murray Productions, and their trip from Avid Media Composer to Apple Final Cut Pro...and back again.



We make reality television. Lots of it.

It's a very post-intensive process. Our shows come alive in the editing room, so we're very sensitive to any changes in the editing process. We're constantly looking for ways to improve the process -- and wary of any, if this is a word, "deprovements."

I was invited to Cupertino in February 2011, to see the first incarnation of Final Cut Pro X -- virtually the same presentation that they gave at NAB a few months later. My feeling in February was, "This is interesting, but obviously it's not ready for primetime. I hope by the time they release it, some of these things will be addressed."

Over the last 10 months, Apple has addressed some of those issues, and they are working on others, but in my opinion they've diverted from what we, as a company, need.

Apple has been using a quote of Wayne Gretzky's that "you should skate to where the puck will be." They're doing what they need to do, but their needs just don't necessarily mesh with our needs.

When the big brouhaha began last April at NAB, I was quick to say, "We're not doing anything until 2012," because a large organization like Bunim/Murray can't just turn on a dime.

In fairness to Apple, I also wanted to give them a chance to address all of the criticism that came up. Since then, I've seen enough of their development to know that the direction they're headed in still isn't the right choice for us. As a result, after years of building our editing workflow around Final Cut Pro, we have decided to return to Avid Media Composer and Avid ISIS as the heart of our post process.

This was not a decision that we took lightly. Change is inevitable. But, different is not necessarily better. Our editorial process requires some specific features that seem to be disappearing from Final Cut.

In contrast, Avid offers an end-to-end solution that allows us to work efficiently on projects in a large shared storage, collaborative environment. The ISIS storage solution also allows the kind of workgroup interactivity that is essential to our workflow.

BUNIM/MURRAY
Bunim/Murray Productions started twenty-five years ago when Jon Murray and Mary-Ellis Bunim shared the same agent. Mary-Ellis had a background in soap operas, Jon had a background in TV news. That combination of soap opera storytelling and documentary sensibilities came together to create the groundbreaking hit for MTV, The Real World. Bunim/Murray currently produces ten shows on four networks, including The Real World, The Bad Girls Club, Love Games, Keeping up with the Kardashians, and Project Runway.


The Real World: San Diego. Courtesy MTV
The Real World: San Diego. Back from l to r: Frank, Sam, Priscilla, Nathan. Front from l to r: Ashley, Zach, Alexandra. Photo courtesy MTV. © Ian Spanier Photography 2011.


We generally have more than a hundred editing seats. It depends on how busy we are, and it depends on how you define an editor, but "more than a hundred" gives you an idea of the scope that we're talking about.

Every show we do draws on massive quantities of media: thousands of hours per show. A show like The Real World generates thousands of hours of media for one season. Project Runway generates a little bit less media because they shoot for a shorter period of time, but they also employ multiple cameras. One Runway segment may use up to twenty-two cameras!



KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS -- Season: 6 -- Pictured: (l-r) Khloé Kardashian Odom, Kourtney Kardashian, Kendell Jenner, Kylie Jenner, Kim Kardashian -- James White/E! Entertainment ©2011 E! Entertainment Television LLC


I've been the Senior Vice President of Post Production for the past eight years, but I've been here almost from the beginning, starting as an editor on The Real World Season 3 in San Francisco.

When I started, they were using a three-quarter inch linear system called the "Strassner." It basically tied together two 3/4 inch tape machines with a basic bare bones PC, and it generated a very simple EDL. You could not do dissolves or wipes -- it was cuts-only. We did the first few seasons of The Real World using that system.

And then, along came this thing called the Avid. It was very bare bones. It was extremely expensive, and storage cost more than a nice sports car. It also wasn't ready to handle to the massive amount of footage that goes with reality television. We thought, "Okay, this is interesting, but it really won't work for us."

I have on my desk what I call my $5000 paperweight. It's an old hard drive, literally, $5000 dollars, and it was 3 gigabytes. The price of storage eventually came down to the point where we could actually afford enough storage to make it worthwhile. It was really Moore's Law catching up with our requirements.

Once that price/performance curve came down to the point where it made economic sense, we never looked back.

We adopted Avid Media Composer around Season 7 of The Real World, and we used Media Composer for the next four or five years, eventually, getting up to the point where we were running forty-eight seats on two Unity systems for the shows we were working on.



Season 9 of Project Runway is back with 20 all-new designers (L to R: Top Row) Danielle Everine, Rafael Cox, David Chum, Serena da Conceicao, Gunnar Deatherage, Anya Ayoung-Chee, Bryce Black, Fallene Wells, Julie Tierney, Laura Kathleen, Olivier Green, Becky Ross, Cecilia Motwani, Kimberly Goldson (Bottom Row) Bert Keeter, Amanda Perna, Joshua Christensen, Joshua Mckinley, Viktor Luna, Anthony Ryan Auld. Photo Credit Courtesy of Lifetime Television. ©Jeff Mauritzen


SNEAKING IN
Final Cut Pro kind of snuck in the back door. We were using two VHS decks tape to tape, trying to make string outs. They came to me and said, "Can you help us out? Is there anything you can do that's better than this?" Final Cut Pro was in version 3 at the time and I said, "Hey, let's look at this thing. It's not too expensive and it's pretty hard not to do better than two VHS decks."

We brought it in-house and loved it, but it was another couple of years before Final Cut Pro progressed to the point where it was a viable alternative for our core editing.

At that point, I received an NAB invite into one of Apple's private meeting rooms to talk about their brand new shared storage solution called Xsan. I said, "We'd really love to be a guinea pig test site, for Xsan." They said, "Well, it's not ready. It's still in beta form." And I said, "That's okay. We're willing to try it and play with it."

That's how we became one of the first early adopters of the Xsan shared storage environment. Once we had shared storage, we were able to seriously consider FCP as a viable alternative to Avid. We switched first on The Real World around 2004. A year later, once we could see that it actually worked, we switched the whole company.

…AND BACK AGAIN
Avid Media Composer 6
Avid Media Composer 6
Our decision to leave Avid years ago was less about technology, and more about economics and -- I think this is common knowledge in the industry -- that going back five, six or seven years, Avid had become complacent, and didn't necessary respond to the needs of the community.

So what is it now about Avid that made us switch? It's two things. One, it's not the same company we left, and two, their reaffirmation of their commitment to the professional has been very clear.

However, Final Cut is probably the best thing to happen to Avid as far as a user-company relationship. It was a wake-up call for Avid to realize that the customer did matter, that they did need to listen, respond and engage their end users.

Over the last few years, I have certainly been watching Avid, and they have changed. It's not the company that we left years ago. That's clear from both a technical point of view and from a management point of view -- personalities, people…all that sort of thing.

WORKFLOW
Not every show has the same workflow, and it always changes. It seems like every week we get a different format handed to us.

In general, our acquisition format of choice is Sony XDCAM HD disk. We also record a fair amount of media on the Sony EX-3. Then we have surveillance cameras, GoPros, HD-SLRs and things like that. We also equip some of our producers with cheap consumer cameras, not because they are cheap, but for "stealth access." In some of the social situations that we find ourselves in, a large professional camera would be unwelcome.

But, as you know, those consumer-grade cameras lack time code, and that can be a problem for post. The one thing that I can confidently tell you about our workflow is that it is constantly changing to accommodate new camera formats.



So, who's going to unpack all of these heavy boxes?


For audio, we've been on Pro Tools from the beginning. Even when we switched to Final Cut, we never switched away from Pro Tools. With the new Media Composer 6, Avid is offering some interesting and unique interoperability with Pro Tools.

The new Video Satellite option means that we can just sync up our Media Composer project directly to Pro Tools to play back, and not have to create a QuickTime or DNxHD movie to mix to. Maybe it seems like a simple step, but that one step, if you're talking about hour-length shows, can save us many hours per day.

As we evaluated Avid ISIS relative to our previous experience with Xsan, we decided, "In for a penny, in for a pound." If we were going to make this switch, we decided to go all in and adopt the entire Avid workflow, including storage. Having used Avid Unity in the past, I was certainly aware of the advantages that Avid offers for a "group based workflow," so while there are other options available for generic storage that is compatible with shared Avid systems, we felt the ISIS 5000 was a good fit for us in terms of capability and cost. We are planning to install approximately 250 terabytes of ISIS storage.



Avid ISIS 5000 with Management Controls


We're also switching to Avid Symphony. We're very happy with the Final Cut Pro-Color workflow that we had, but Symphony offers an even better "all-in-one-box" type of solution. We are interested in perhaps exploring the Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve workflow as well, so there are a lot of things to be interested and excited about.

TOOLS FOR STORYTELLERS
We are storytellers. Our audience, the people who watch the shows that we create, they don't care how we did it. Nobody tunes in to watch an Avid or Final Cut Pro show. They tune in to watch great stories and interesting personalities.

My job is to make sure that our team has the best choice of tools in their kit, and in my opinion, this change reflects that. We're doing what we need to do to stay ahead of the curve, to stay competitive, and to provide our editors with the best tools possible to be great storytellers.






bio




  View 160 Comment(s)

  Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate Tutorials   •   Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate Forum
Reply   Like  
+6
Share on Facebook
Comments

Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Todd Dalton
Thank you for taking the time to write this, Mark.

Sadly as mentioned in other posts, money is tight these days and Avid on the scale that you're talking about is only really viable for people of your standing. Us little blokes have to stick with a more economical alternative.

Hopefully by the time FCP 7 'breaks' on MacPro's then FCPX will be running in a more pro-like fashion. Fingers crossed!
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Stephen Snow
Hey David,

Wow, thank you for the extended, insightful and very helpful response to my inquiry. I had kind of "bowed out" of the discussion b/c it seemed like it had devolved a bit into a "Internet flaming" cat fight, and my feeling is that we should all be here to help. I think the COW is great, been coming here on and off for years.

Anyway, I greatly appreciate your input. Really helpful. Wish I had the cashola to invest in Avid right now, but I'll keep it in mind. I'm working of this film right now (Short blurb: SUNSHINE REBELS tells the story of a group of inner-city teenagers who in the 1970’s came together in New York City’s Central Park and in the process left an indelible stamp on world culture through startling innovations in street art, alternative music and extreme sports.
A coming-of-age story set in the world's most infamous park - abandoned and crumbling amid the city's collapsed economy - The Parkies reveals a unique and colorful 1970’s subculture. The documentary highlights the lives of the intriguing figures who lived communally, intensely, at times ferally, in the shadowy grounds of Central Park’s Naumburg Bandshell, the heart of a broken and reeling Gotham City.), and I've just purchased the new Panasonic HPX250 for that purpose. Money's tight, and the upset in the editing community that Apple created is a "distraction" and hassle that I think this community didn't need. I agree with you on all counts.

Stephen
http://www.stephensnow.net
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Ra-ey Saleh
Very interesting, balanced and informative article Mark, thanks for posting.
If Evan Schechtman does move OutPost Digital to FCPX, I think that would make an equally interesting article, let's hope he posts one. My guess would be that he'd be receiving direct help from Apple if he really wanted to get 50 seats up and running and train enough people to use FCPX to the level/speed expected of a professional. Apple would then have a test case to trail-blaze to try and counter the negative press so far. Afterall, if the next version does add Multicam and Monitoring (and with the exceptions of FCP backward compatibility and being able to 'talk' to other Apps), this would have answered 2 big concerns people had, which 'might' be enough for some to take FCPX seriously as a Pro-App. It could then just be the general pro-customers bad blood that they would have to overcome. If they now can.

Ra-ey
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Mike Cohen
Interesting thread, what I read of it. It is sad that after all these years it is still common for topics of interest to devolve into "my dad can beat up your dad" debates.

I had seen Mark's posts over the years but never realized he was involved in all the shows my wife lives and breathes for. I may have to wrestle the next issue of the COW magazine away from her if it has mention of a Kardashian!

But seriously, I think the summary here, as it always is, is that you use the tools that are right for the job. There is no singular solution. I will bet we will see a feature or major piece of work cut in X in the next couple of years, as we will with CS5, and numerous other platforms. Use what works for you, allows you to make a living, and stop complaining I say!

Mike Cohen

PS - My dad can beat up your dad
+1
@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Max Prum
I haven't tried FCP X yet, but that tekserve video did open my eyes to some of the potential benefits. Overall I feel like both the "Trust in the ghost of Steve Jobs" crowd and the "Apple has forsaken us crowd" are probably overstating their cases. I use both FCP 7 and Avid at work but on my personal projects where I am generally kind of a one man band I have started using more and more Premiere because of its easy integration with After Effects.

I think its important to keep in mind that whereas the head of a production company or a post house might have to decide to commit thousands in technology from one company or another. As individual artisans/artists it is probably wisest to be familiar with a variety of different tools and not rely too heavily on a single skill set that can suddenly be phased out as a matter of corporate strategy or the result of a bend in the path of technological progress. Most of us don't run 50 or 100 seat editing houses and in a world where the majority of us are independent freelance operators or short term contract employees with little job security, the ideal situation is one in which there are a plurality of platforms that all have incentive to be cross-compatible. All of the large software companies should have to compete for our business and none of them should have what amounts to intellectual property rights to our technical skills.

I think Adobe, out of necessity, has been a lot more flexible and egalitarian than either Apple or Avid. But it is silly to anthropomorphize a corporation and become emotional either pro or con a tool. Despite what the supreme court may rule, they are not people and words like 'betrayal' and 'loyalty' have little place in the conversation.

I thought this was a very interesting article but what works best for cutting "Keeping up with the Kardashians" May have little relevance to my workflow because I am not cutting "Keeping up with the Kardashians". One tool might be best for a factory and another for a workshop and another for a different workshop or a different job at the same shop.

My point is we have to make sure we can freely define our tool set and don't become defined by our tools.
+1
@Herb
by Rafael Amador
[Herb Sevush] "So who's number three and do they get some sort of prize?"
No prices, but among the 6 top COW posters (http://forums.creativecow.net/hof.php), 5 of them are not going FCPX.
They do not represent the big industry, but for me they are more representative than the BM story.
They were pioneers of FC and was the successful story of people like them what made the big companies to put their eyes on FC, not the other way around.
Now the story is being repeated. Those guys took their decisions months before Mark Raudonis announcement, and for sure without any bias or personal interest against Apple. They would have been more happy if they wouldn't have been pushed to take such a decision.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com
Re: @ Simon Grome
by Rafael Amador
[Simon Grome] "When I read the passage that say's 'we went from 2 VHS decks to FCP' I wondered what year this was?"
Mark said that they were working with AVID:

"We adopted Avid Media Composer around Season 7 of The Real World, and we used Media Composer for the next four or five years,.....Final Cut Pro kind of snuck in the back door. We were using two VHS decks tape to tape, trying to make string outs".
I don't know what "string out' really means, but at that time promotional copies, etc, were distributed in VHS.
DVDs was out of the reach of most people.
DVDSTP cost more than 1K and the media wasn't cheap neither.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com
Re: @ Simon Grome
by Herb Sevush
[Rafael Amador] "I don't know what "string out' really means"

It's TV talk for an assembly of all good master takes, strung out on one reel or timeline.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: @Herb
by Thomas Frank
If you think about it they were not pioneers, if everybody compares FCP7 and lower with Media Composer and Premiere.
Today with FCPX they might be pioneers since everybody against like the villager against the Frankenstein monster
Not being Pro FCPX or to any other company. But like I said FCP7 is getting to much similarities with mainstream after the release of FCPX.

On the other not if you think about it FCPX brings you back to the Think Differemt campaign.
Is this good or bad? If its good it came form me first! :)

Re: @Herb
by Rafael Amador
[Thomas Frank] "On the other not if you think about it FCPX brings you back to the Think Differemt campaign."
Now everybody has an iPhone or an iPad, so "thinking different" today means looking somewhere else.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Simon Grome
When I read the passage that say's 'we went from 2 VHS decks to FCP' I wondered what year this was? I had a good ten years on Casablanca NLE's in between my VHS decks and FCP.... I feel these guys missed out big time on turnkey technology that was pioneering from 1996....
@Simon Grome
by Tim Wilson
That was actually very interesting to me, too, Simon. I think it's a reflection of the fact that Mark has not led BMP into the position of early adopters.

Media Composer had been around for TEN YEARS before BMP started using it. FCP had been around for 5. Even a decision as "fast" as one year in the making this time wasn't a knee-jerk.

A year in the making! I bought my last house based on an automated alert from Zillow, decided to take it after two minutes inside, wrote the offer before lunch, and moved in less than 2 weeks later. So far so good and everything, but seriously, I don't think about ANYTHING for a year.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine

@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
what a stupid story...bunim/murray are only 1 company and while they may do a lot of work, they in no way represent the majority of users. so what if they have 100 or 300 edit suites with fcp...there are 10000's of editors in the world using fcp 7 and loving it. some are even trying fcpx which now talks very nicely to davinci. given a few more upgrades i wouldn't be surprised to see it ready to take on the world again. this is irresponsible reporting on the cows part. adding more fuel to the fire that is supposed to be the death of apple in the industry. shame on anyone who buys into this garbage!
-9
The Cow should be ashamed.
by Gary Hazen
[kim krause] " this is irresponsible reporting on the cows part."

Absolutely. Ron should be burned at the stake for such a travesty.

The Cow should only have articles that are pro Apple.
Reporting on Adobe or Avid applications should be strictly forbidden.
Mac users should be encouraged to mock PC users.

The name of this site should be changed to Golden Cow Apples.

Thank you Kim for putting this site back on the right track.
Oops I forgot the new paradigm is trackless.
Thank you Kim for correcting the Creative Cow's "role".
+4
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by James Mortner
[kim krause] "what a stupid story...bunim/murray are only 1 company and while they may do a lot of work, they in no way represent the majority of users. so what if they have 100 or 300 edit suites with fcp...there are 10000's of editors in the world using fcp 7 and loving it. some are even trying fcpx which now talks very nicely to davinci. given a few more upgrades i wouldn't be surprised to see it ready to take on the world again. this is irresponsible reporting on the cows part. adding more fuel to the fire that is supposed to be the death of apple in the industry. shame on anyone who buys into this garbage!"

I found the story very interesting, as did a lot of other people. Why is it such heresy for you ? Just ignore it if it bothers you so...
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
i'll tell ya why.....anytime a company with a high profile is singled out or featured, it makes everyone else think that they are industry leaders. this also causes a lot of confusion because it doesn't truly reflect the needs of your everyday editor. they are one large company that has decided to go down a different path yet the perception is we should all follow that path if we want to achieve their success. this is what i find irresponsible and misleading. if the cow is gonna publish these sort s of stories then equal time should be given to the hundreds of people who have moved to fcpx and are loving it. when i read the story it seemed to me that bunim/murray are doing the switch so maybe the rest of us should follow suit. i would love to read a similar story of someone who has decided not to switch to avid or has tried out x and is happy with it. this sensationalist type of reporting is only doing damage to the industry and i wouldn't be surprised if avid is part of this promotion. even the chintzy photos showing all the boxes with avid clearly marked on them is pure and simple product placement. prove me wrong!
-2
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by James Mortner
Well, fair enough, that's your interpretation.

I thought it was well balanced, they justified why they went with Avid and why FCPX doesn't work for them.
It doesn't strike me as a rebuke to all editors who dont work the way they do !

It also seems unfair to brand the COW magazine as biased or paid-for shills. Its a good mag that's honest and carefully researched. Whats not to like ?
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Daniel Frome
@ kim -

You do realize that Mark Raudonis had practically become the poster boy for FCPX in broadcast, even defending the software at a Cow event despite the obvious Avid bias in the room.

Now suddenly his company does a 180 and goes full-on to Avid? I bet if someone at the Cow event had made an open bet that this would happen he would have laughed at them. This is quite newsworthy because a) it goes against what Mark personally said at this Cow event and probably other publications/events, and b) I think he deserved an article to set the record straight and give his side of the story.

It would have been "sensationalist" if the Cow had written their own article almost like a gossip piece. It's different because they let the man speak for himself. Believe me, this was VERY surprising news and certainly for broadcast guys like me it was an important item. NOT sensationalism.
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[Daniel Frome] "It would have been "sensationalist" if the Cow had written their own article almost like a gossip piece. It's different because they let the man speak for himself. Believe me, this was VERY surprising news and certainly for broadcast guys like me it was an important item. NOT sensationalism.

"


I thought it was a nicely written and very interesting piece.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
Let's hope the COW gives Evan Schechtman of Radical Media and OutPost Digital equal coverage if he keeps his word and moves OutPost to FCPX on the next release.

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Craig Seeman] "Let's hope the COW gives Evan Schechtman of Radical Media and OutPost Digital equal coverage if he keeps his word and moves OutPost to FCPX on the next release."

That implies that you question whether the COW is neutral on this issue, which to me is ridiculous. Mark Raudonis is a major Cow contributor who chose to write about his experience, much the same way that Walter Biscardi did earlier. If Evan wants to be heard, all he has to do is show up and post. I'll leave it up to the COW who they want to put in their magazine.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
+2
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Herb Sevush] "That implies that you question whether the COW is neutral on this issue, which to me is ridiculous."

I'm not sure if COW is neutral either but I'd rather wait to pass judgement. They are drawing on their most available resources. We'll have to see if COW journalist reach out when the time comes.

[Herb Sevush] "If Evan wants to be heard, all he has to do is show up and post."

Some of us have posted his presentations on FCPX. Actually all it takes is good journalism to contact him for a story. He'd just have to be available and willing.

@Craig Seeman
by Ronald Lindeboom
We will gladly post an article by Evan Schechtman -- hey, we've published him in our magazine before and would do it again.

Unfortunately, no one has come forward with a story of using FCPX in anything more than a small one-man shop setting.

We personally believe and have stated on many occasions that we officially believe that FCPX will be VERY successful in the days ahead. It will sell bazillions of copies and make Apple a boatload of cash.

Whether it ever becomes a serious pro-level tool remains to be seen. And if it does and people use it in that setting and build companies around it, we'll report it.

We have no agenda other than reporting and serving the market as it grows and develops.

That's our stand.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen
+3
@Ronald Lindeboom
by Craig Seeman
Thanks Ron for confirming COW's position as publisher.

If Evan Schechtman does move OutPost Digital to FCPX, it'll make an interesting read. If it doesn't than that decision will be equally interesting given what I heard him say in November.

@Craig Seeman
by Ronald Lindeboom
We love to report on anyone who is doing new and cool things. Evan is a smart guy and he does great work. If he thinks something works for him, it is likely to be meritorious for many of our members -- so, we would be more than happy to cover it.

Our agenda is nothing more than reporting on a fast-changing market in which things are really shaking and rattling at the moment.

The more things shake, the more we have things to write and report about. (Besides, if we waited for things to be perfect before we reported on them or did anything about them, then how could I live up to my sig's tagline from Woody Allen?)

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen
@Craig Seeman
by kim krause
hey craig...why are we the only 2 people here who ever agree and seem to share the same opinions.......either everyone else is just closed minded or we are truly geniuses! hahaha...to all the rest of you out there reading this i am saying this with the biggest amount of sarcasm i can muster, so please no comments on me being smug or conceited or self centered because the one person i can really laugh at is myself.
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Tim Wilson
"[Craig Seeman] "Let's hope the COW gives Evan Schechtman of Radical Media and OutPost Digital equal coverage...."

[Herb Sevush] That implies that you question whether the COW is neutral on this issue, which to me is ridiculous. Mark Raudonis is a major Cow contributor who chose to write about his experience......"




On matters like this, the COW is ALWAYS neutral. We posted some of the web's first professionally oriented FCPX tutorials, and still aggressively court them.

Although I haven't spoken to him since I left the east coast, I know Evan casually. In fact, I wrote a very nice article about him (if I say so myself) in 2007, in the 4th issue of Creative COW Magazine! (Note that I was focusing so much energy on the magazine at the time that the web layout is genuinely weak. Oh well, it happens. Download the PDF instead.) 2012 rolls in, still no Evan in the COW. Whatever. I don't take it personally and will greet him warmly the next time I see him.

Here's the thing: Creative COW Magazine comes out of the people who are IN the COW. We didn't do the magazine to do a magazine about The Industry. We did it to focus on this specific community, which just happens to comprise the smartest and best-looking people the industry has to offer.

I have precisely zero interest in hunting down somebody from outside the COW to give a perspective that is VERY well represented here already. You can see it on the threads in the Debate forum where some people are very articulate about why they like it, or at least see its potential. Even among the struggles, you can see a pretty general positivity in the FCPX Techniques forum, which is, surprise surprise, one of our most popular forums. A meaningful percentage FCP-ish folks either actively likes FCPX, or is still actively poking at it. Good for them.

Worth noting: the #1 poster in the history of Creative COW, Walter Biscardi, is done with FCPX. The #2 poster in the history of the COW, Jeremy Garchow, likes FCPX quite a bit, and sees it as a strong answer to the requests that FCP-ers have had for years. Both have written much commented-upon articles about it, which we featured prominently when they came out.

Bessie is neutral.

So why feature Mark? On one hand, it's obvious to many folks who've been around the COW for a while, or who have seen Mark in the dozens of forums he has posted in, but it's a legitimate question in this context, and I'm happy to answer.

As Herb notes, Mark has been part of the COW for a long time, posting since 2003. Even more important is that he is a very professional, level-headed guy who has been very generous with his time and experience here at the COW.

When Bunim/Murray Productions switched to FCP, it was A Very Big Deal in the industry -- only natural, because under Mark's leadership, BMP's post operations really have been the model of success for companies of this scale...and there are really only a small handful of them. When BMP said the water was safe, other people jumped in -- not just BMP said so, but because MARK RAUDONIS said so.

Earlier this year, in the weeks leading up to NAB, Mark had indeed spoken a little about his impressions of Apple's FCPX preview, and I gotta tell you, I was bugging him immediately after the show to get him to write something official. Nope, he said, the thing's not even released yet, so we don't even know what we're looking at yet.

See? Not in a hurry to pipe up for its own sake...although we encourage that if that's your bag. :-) I touched base with him again in October or so to bug him again, and he told me that they'd come up with something by the end of the year. Wouldn't even give me a hint.

I asked again in December, and he said that he'd have something to say in January...but still no hint.

Note that, up until a couple of weeks ago, I had NO IDEA what he was going to tell me. That is the essence of neutral. I wanted to hear Mark's story because I knew that, no matter what he and BMP decided to do, that it was going to be well-considered, and that Mark was going to be very articulate about his decision-making process.

Please also note that I asked Mark to include some information about his background so that readers can see that he, too, is neutral. He wasn't screaming about Avid when he chose FCP, and he didn't feel abandoned or betrayed by Apple when he chose to move back to Media Composer. He carefully made a call, and I wanted to be first in line to get him to talk about it, WHATEVER HE DECIDED.

I committed to him that I'd put the story in the magazine, whatever that story was, because I knew it was gonna be good. And of course it IS a good story. I just decided last week to slip it on to the web early, because the magazine won't be in print until the end of the month, and I saw the attention generated by the press release. Better to have Mark's version of the story out there sooner rather than later.

That's probably more than anyone wanted to know, but again, this is an important story. Yes, Avid is an advertiser...as is Adobe, Autodesk, Anthro, ARRI, AJA, and just about anyone else who starts with the letter A...including, in the past, Apple. But we don't do stories for or against companies because of their advertising status. We do stories that are important to the people in our community, and have never suggested that a single story represents more than the experience of the author. But the point of the COW is that we use other people's experience to enrich our own. Mark's not arguing a case. He's sharing his own experience...at least partly because I hunted him down. :-) Nobody here with an axe to grind.

Not that Bessie hasn't ground an axe now and again. Not this time though.

Final note about something that somebody brought up in another part of this thread: the pictures of a box of Media Composer and ISIS are there because, after you run one picture of the Khardassian sisters in the article, that's probably enough. Maybe not, but probably. So once you turned the page in the magazine, the Avid product pictures seemed like good ones to include: nice and colorful, germane to the story. It was my call. I can see why somebody might be suspicious, but I think that over the past 6+ years of the magazine, we've made our case for integrity...largely because the authors who are part of the COW have established their own integrity, which is how they get in the magazine in the first place.

And on the subject of neutrality: we had the picture of ISIS handy because Bob Zelin awarded it the Creative COW Blue Ribbon of Excellence at NAB 2011. Bob is one of the most Apple/FCP-oriented guys in the business, and has been very outspoken about how clueless he thinks Avid is. VERY outspoken, because it's Bob. He was as surprised as anyone to give them the award...even more interesting to me because he consults so regularly with MAXX Digital, and is even listed on their website. We still trusted Bob to make the call about the best storage out there, because that's what kind of guy he is.

His public persona is as a bomb-thrower, and he talks EXACTLY the way he writes, but he's actually a very careful thinker who comes to his conclusions very slowly, after a great deal of testing, and continually re-evaluates based on the experiences of his clients. He thinks Avid ISIS 5000 is a game-changer, and a bargain. Once Mark and BMP settled on the same storage, I made the lazy...oops, I mean EFFICIENT...decision to use a picture that was already laying around...and which made sense for the story.

Anywayyyyyy, I think that's plenty from me about this. I hope I've clearly answered what I think are completely legit questions. You really can't integrity for granted, especially when you've seen such a dire lack of it in other magazines, and I'm happy to be held accountable by you. I count on it.

Yr pal,
Timmy

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine

+1
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Tim Wilson] "Worth noting: the #1 poster in the history of Creative COW, Walter Biscardi, is done with FCPX. The #2 poster in the history of the COW, Jeremy Garchow, likes FCPX quite a bit,"

So who's number three and do they get some sort of prize?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[Herb Sevush] "So who's number three and do they get some sort of prize?"

Third prize is a set of steak knives. Fourth prize? You're fired!

Chris
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Chris Conlee] "hird prize is a set of steak knives."

Steak knives. . . COW. NO, no, no, no. Please no violence against COW.

@Chris Conlee
by Tim Wilson
As a vegetarian, I find other things to do with steak knives than eat Bessie's dead children, but for the record: SECOND prize is a set of steak knives. :-)

Fantastic scene. Mamet is the man. (Naughty word included...but hey, it's Mamet...)

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by David Roth Weiss
[Daniel Frome] "this was VERY surprising news and certainly for broadcast guys like me it was an important item. NOT sensationalism."

Actually Daniel, though your conclusions are spot-on, this news is hardly surprising. For months I've been saying right here that Los Angeles would soon be "all Avid, all the time." And, that was not just my opinion, it was based on innumerable discussions with editors and post-production managers and executives who know what they're talking about.

In a situation such as the one Apple created, forcing every user of their legacy software to retool and retrain, the big players have to adapt, because there's a lot a stake, with big money riding on a seamless transition that has to work right out of the box.

Enterprise level customers such as Bunim Murray have hard deadlines and delivery schedules projected well out into the future, requiring near military precision. Logistics on such a large scale can't be based on promises and untested technology. And so, at this point, Avid really is the only fully scalable enterprise-level solution currently available for shared work environments.

Bunim/Murray's move represents just the tip of the iceberg, and you'll see virtually the entire L.A. ecosystem moving in the direction of Avid over the next year. You can expect to see Avid doing huge business at NAB 2012, and this should come as no surprise to anyone.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
+1
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Richard Herd
Since depreciation schedules are 5 years long, what will happen when its time to buy new equipment?

And that begs another question: If everyone was so happy with FCS3, then why did they have to buy something new?
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
[Richard Herd] "And that begs another question: If everyone was so happy with FCS3, then why did they have to buy something new?"

Good question!

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Thomas Frank] "[Richard Herd] "And that begs another question: If everyone was so happy with FCS3, then why did they have to buy something new?"

Good question!"


No, it's neither a good question nor an unanswered question. It's been asked on this forum a least once a week for the last 7 months.

The answer is that "everyone" wasn't happy with FCS3; we had been waiting over a year for Apple to catch up with Adobe and Avid in terms of tapeless ingest and 64bit speed (at least from Adobe). We were happy with the direction of FCP and were eagerly awaiting the 64bit, anything in the timeline, render-less FCP8 of our dreams that, much like Godot, never arrived.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
[Herb Sevush] "terms of tapeless ingest and 64bit speed (at least from Adobe). We were happy with the direction of FCP and were eagerly awaiting the 64bit, anything in the timeline, render-less FCP8 "

FCPX has this... lol ;)

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Thomas Frank] "FCPX has this... lol ;)"

Oh lord, don't tempt me. Lets just admit that yes, FCPX does have those features but the list of features it doesn't have is so long that this forum was created just to hold them.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
+1
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
Where is your humor?

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
or is mark so flaky that he spoke his mind too early and now had to backtrack to save face. a lot of people came out in support of fcpx when it was first demoed, then all backed down when people started complaining what it wasn't or didn't have. apple made a very brave (some may say foolish) leap in what they thought an edit system should be. i for one applaud them for at least trying. however it seems that all the people jumping to avid are doing so because ether don't want things to change. they want to work the way they always have and that is their right. i just think all the over reacting and bad mouthing is way out of line and does no good for the industry. it's the same arguments all over again when final cut vets 1 first came out. no one in the pro industry like it or thought it would amount to anything. then it became an industry standard. just my opinion!
@kim krause
by Paul Carlin
I am so tired of hearing, "Once they get A, B and C to work, it will be a great program." Do you people even hear what you are saying? People need to make decisions today, and they need to base those decisions on facts. Not what some company may or may not do at some point in the future. Especially a company that is shrouded in secrecy, and likes to change direction with no warning. The direction Apple is headed may work for some people, but not for Mr. Raudonis. He took the time to explain why. I didn't see this as anything but a well respected industry leader sharing his decision making process. If this was about how he switched to FCPX, or Smoke, or Premiere Pro... I would have appreciated his thoughts all the same.
+2
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[kim krause] "anytime a company with a high profile is singled out or featured, it makes everyone else think that they are industry leaders."

In the world of reality TV Bunim/Murray Productions is the industry leader, whether you like it or not. Nobody is making it "seem" that way, that is the way.

[kim krause] "this sensationalist type of reporting is only doing damage to the industry"

For years Apple hyped to the heavens the name of any feature film maker or TV production company that was using FCP legacy. Were you complaining then? Did you post about how terrible it was that you were seeing article after article talking about how Walter Murch was cutting Cold Mountain on FCP? So when Apple uses the notoriety of the film and TV industry it's OK, but when others report that these same people are leaving them behind it's "doing damage to the industry."

Do you understand the expression "hoist with their own petard"? That's Apple's position now; if they don't like it maybe they should have listened to the industry figures who saw early prototypes and who's feedback was ignored.

[kim krause] "i would love to read a similar story of someone who has decided not to switch to avid or has tried out x and is happy with it."

We've got you here, isn't that enough?

[kim krause] "i wouldn't be surprised if avid is part of this promotion. even the chintzy photos showing all the boxes with avid clearly marked on them is pure and simple product placement. prove me wrong!"

Product placement is the practice of prominently using branded products in places where they are not central to the story. Using pictures of Avid boxes in a story about a company switching to Avid is not product placement, it's called reporting.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
@Herb Sevush
by Ronald Lindeboom
Thank you, Herb. Your words are appreciated and I couldn't have said it half as good. You are, yet again, The Man, man. ;o)

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
sorry herb, but when 1 person (director/producer) is promoting the benefits of a certain system that is not the same as publishing an article that is sure to have influence on an entire industry. i'm sure avid made an offer that couldn't be refused and i still say that all the attention given to this story is just a bunch of p.r.!
my objection is that we are made to feel that if these big guns go the avid route then that must be what we all should do! it doesn't represent a fair evaluation. and what about premiere pro? i am hearing nothing about that product either. i am not saying i am a big fcpx fan, it's just that i can smell a sales pitch a mile away. by posting this article in the way it was done (big headline/ large photos showing avid hardware/ smirky smug smile of satisfied customer) it just feels like an overwhelming nod to avid and it just isn't fair on a forum like this. where is the neutrality? i wouldn't be surprised if there is a huge upswing in avid sales in america because of this article. maybe even on pc's as well. maybe apple dropped the ball, but i see us all buying into mediocrity and snubbing different ways of working just for the sake of it. as long as there was an alternative to windows we had a healthy industry. competition breeds innovation and we all benefit. now i get the feeling that very soon we will all be editing on crap pc hardware using avid as the tool forced upon us and not by choice. there are no leaders left, only followers....lemmings content to allow others to take the lead! it's a sad day for the post industry when we all buy into this disease!
-1
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[kim krause] "lemmings content to allow others to take the lead! it's a sad day for the post industry when we all buy into this disease!"

Whoa, I feel like somebody put too much sugar on their Wheaties this morning. There's still plenty of competition to go around, and for what it's worth, most of the power is in PC hardware these days. And for a lot less money, if you're willing to not be a lemming and go out and build your own.

Chris
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[kim krause] "now i get the feeling that very soon we will all be editing on crap pc hardware using avid as the tool forced upon us and not by choice."

I find your posts too ignorant to take seriously so I'm done responding to you.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Marvin Holdman
Frankly, the emergence of a troll reminds me just how lucky this forum has been. With so few appearing, when one does pop up, it is quite obvious.

Thanks for that Kim, now back under the bridge with you!

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Ronald Lindeboom
Good morning Kim,

Get bold and say what you really mean... ;o)

It's a story because, well, because IT'S A STORY. We knew it would be and we wanted it here. Want proof that it's a real story that people want to read??? Just look at the thread that ensued because of the article. It's huge. Huge.

Advertisers can try all they like to generate interest and lift and many times it fails. This article wasn't bought and paid for by Avid or anyone else. We label the ones that are infomercials and brand them with great big logos and disclaimers that are clearly labeled.

If you look at this article's thread, there is GREAT interest in what Bunim/Murray is doing because Mark Raudonis is a HIGHLY TRUSTED AND RESPECTED member of Creative COW who joined the COW nearly a decade ago. Mark is a smart guy with a lot of experience. People like him. People trust him. He's helpful, he gets in and answers questions, sometimes even the questions of his competitors.

We've known much of this story behind the scenes and have been getting appraised of SOME parts of Bunim/Murray's process in all of this over the months.

We know and trust Mark, a man you have just personally derided as a shill who got bought off.

Kim, you just insulted Mark Raudonis, disparaging both his opinions and his character. I am sure we are also in there somewhere (although by the time I saw what you were saying about Mark, I stopped and got my fingers clicking away).

Mark Raudonis is a great guy, kind, gracious, friendly, professional, meticulous and bright. In the decade that I have known him, I have never known him to lie or to be anything other than a man of integrity. That he shares his ideas and experience here is an honor and credit to both this community and to us, personally. Sluffing him off as some kind of store-bought schlump is both insulting and unreasonable.

Mark Raudonis also happens to be the Senior Vice President of Post Production of the largest reality TV producer in the world.

You may wish to pick your fights better next time, Kim.

Best regards,

Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
http://www.creativecow.net


Creativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.

"Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm."
- Woody Allen
+2
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
so you're telling me that i can't make a criticism of someone because of who they are...he could be the king of england and that shouldn't matter a bit about what i said. i am only expressing my feelings for the way in which the story was handled. i stay by my view. it all sounds like a big pat on the back for avid and a bigger slap in the face for everyone else. i could care if he was the worlds biggest producer of every show in the world. i never meant for this to be an attack on his character or him personally, just an observation that this love affair with avid was all a bit out of sorts. thanks for letting me know that he is a sweet and wonderful guy and very intelligent but as someone mentioned earlier he came out all swinging for how great fcpx was then changed his tune. i merely commented that by changing his tune maybe he wasn't all that much informed (okay i said flaky, but where's the problem). previously he was telling us all that fcpx was the way forward and his company was looking at going in that direction. then he changed his mind. i think anyone would call that flaky! a lot of so called industry leaders also had their praises for fcpx then turned the other cheek when it got too hot. we all know that as soon as it looked like apple dropped the ball with fcpx, avid and adobe were standing there offering huge discounts to make people switch. the corpse wasn't even cold and they were all tempting people to switch. very tacky i would say and some might even say desperate attempt to get our cash! i saw that whole thing as being in very poor taste. and now for you guys ate cow. you have a lot of influence over what will become the next big thing. i read these forums all the time for information and try to stay on top of what is current. it is a great source of information and i myself have made the switch from color to davinci resolve because of what i was able to gather from other peoples experiences. i even had a few chats with peter from bmd about features i thought would make resolve a better product. with every version they make it more like color and that can only be a good thing. i am not saying we shouldn't change our ways of working or adapt to new technologies, but i believe in giving everyone a equal voice on these forums. everyones opinion is valid, we just don't have to agree all the time.
-1
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Doug Weiner
Well written article, thanks. The real question I have is, does AMA finally work reliably in Avid 6? I acknowledge it 'works' in 5.5, but there are so many issues with it that its not reliable. Does 6.0 fix this? I have 20 terabytes of ProRes.

Thanks
Doug
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Daniel Frome
Hi Doug - not sure if anyone else has answered this for you -- but prores in MC6 (for mac) is a native codec, just like DNxHD. This means AMA will work fine, or an import will work all the same: it won't transcode your prores files, but "fast import" them (just rewrapping into MXF). You can do everything (capturing, rendering, etc) in ProRes instead of DNxHD too. You could AMA your prores files and then consolidate the edit, etc, without changing codecs.
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Doug Weiner
Thanks Daniel.

So to be clear (for me), this is not how 5.5 handled pro-res?

I recently had a bad incident in 5.5 and AMA and XDcam files. Using AMA import, Fist, some would read and other gave some kind of frame mismatch error/AMA plug-in issue. Later, I imported via AMA more XDcam files from the same drive (different day of shooting) into the project and "poof" some of the older AMA connections were replaced - EVEN IN THE TIMELINE. Had to untangle that mess by simply re-transcoding everything, capture an old cut and re-cutting with new material.

If 6.0 is truly Pro-Res native, then I will switch.

One more question: Is the Gamma issue solved in 6.0 with pro-res?

Doug
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Daniel Frome
[Doug Weiner] "So to be clear (for me), this is not how 5.5 handled pro-res?"

Correct. MC 5.5 does not have the feature I spoke about.

As for your AMA issues with XDCAM -- make sure that you name your "disk label" BEFORE importing the files, as Avid states in their tutorial of XDCAM offline/online workflow:






Using this method (in the video), my current TV show has been able to load/use thousands of hours of XDCAM footage (with AMA) and never have the issue you spoke about, and this is with MC5.5, not 6.



[Doug Weiner] "One more question: Is the Gamma issue solved in 6.0 with pro-res?"
Yes it is fixed. Since there is no transcoding, there is no change to the footage, gamma and all.
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Doug Weiner
Thanks Daniel.

So to be clear (for me), this is not how 5.5 handled pro-res?

I recently had a bad incident in 5.5 and AMA and XDcam files. Using AMA import, Fist, some would read and other gave some kind of frame mismatch error/AMA plug-in issue. Later, I imported via AMA more XDcam files from the same drive (different day of shooting) into the project and "poof" some of the older AMA connections were replaced - EVEN IN THE TIMELINE. Had to untangle that mess by simply re-transcoding everything, capture an old cut and re-cutting with new material.

If 6.0 is truly Pro-Res native, then I will switch.

One more question: Is the Gamma issue solved in 6.0 with pro-res?

Doug
@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Leon Unger
The big problem here is like was said , the bacwards compatibility by Apple . Other participant here said a inportant thing. Beggining in OS Lion X that do not have support for sttemping 7 from XEON.He left all Apple aofteare. He did the rigth move. So other issue is the limitation of the processors cores of Lion X. I have a dual opteron Interlagos with 32 cores in total,256 Gbytes RAM, 12 TB raid0, 1024 cuda cores,( my main board have support for two more processors) running under windows 8 X64, even in pre beta status already obtain with new Kernel, full of the new interlagos(Buldozer core), performance,from AMD . The new Windows 8 kernel is capable to use 4 physical procesors no matter the number of cores in each processor . Lion X ? ha Ha! No Ivy Bridge support ! My machine from Titanius computer costs $17K dolars... IF! IF! IF! Apple will have a hardware near of it will costs more than $50K
My point is that we have to think and move forward. The Lion X OS is limited, built based an old linux system, FCP7, FCS is a old 32 bits APP, limited in 4 GBytres of file size and memory, and use only 4 processors. FCPx is limited by limitations of Lion.
So is time to move on, leave behind all jurassic hardware and software from Apple .The Pro apps apple site is the same since 2009.( http://www.apple.com/pro ) In this site is still talking about Obamas elect campaign... The men is about to leave presidency ... Forguet about Apple.Pro apps divison represents only 3% of pple revenue. It will nor suprises me if pro divison cease operations in near future. Apple today is a Gadget IOS company, not more. They are concerned by the Chinese companies that makes IPAD by the 1/10 of the cost.
+1
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Asad Kazmi
Hi ,

Do watch this , i am convinced.





@Asad Kazmi
by Craig Seeman
I heard Evan speak again a month or so again. He's been beta tested the next release of FCPX and he said when it's released he's moving his facility to it. 50 seats in NY and it may be another 50 in CA as well if I understand. I also think there's a lot more than multicam and broadcast monitoring coming as well. With 50 seats I suspect there's going to be good SAN/Server operability as well.

+1
@Asad Kazmi
by Stephen Snow
WOW. I have to admit that the guy at TekServe blew me away. I will also confess that I have been listening to the general consensus that FCPX sucks, and therefore did not dig into it. I worked for Apple for 2.5 years and was an FCS trainer. Bottom line, I went out and bought Premiere CS5, and I like it, better than FCP7. But after watching he video that Asad put up, I'm now wondering if I "wasted" $800.00 on Premiere, as FCPX looks and "feels" a whole lot better than I thought. A different way of working, to be sure. But as the dude points out, change isn't bad if the changes innovate with features and save time. It's a very different way of editing, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't like it greatly if I took the time to learn it the same way I did FCS.

Now I'm confused!
@Stephen Snow
by David Lawrence
Frankly, I've never been impressed with Evan Schectman's demo. He does a great job highlighting FCPX's strengths and completely ignores its weaknesses for many editorial workflows.

The only way you'll find out if it works for you is by using it. Why don't you download the free trial and give it a try. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
@David Lawrence
by Stephen Snow
HI David,

Thanks for your response. I guess what i find frustrating is that there seems to be no real "consensus" on which way to go, Premiere or Avid. I don't know much about Avid, as I've never worked with it, and it seems like a ton of dollars, which i don't have. Also, even if I had the money to invest, I'm not a company or editing house. I'm just an editor, not necessarily looking to learn a whole new animal. I've got a bit of that with Premiere already, though it's pretty similar in many ways to FCP, with no rendering time, native raw footage, etc.

I'm not an exp[ert editor, though I'm getting back to it. I spent several years opening a company called center for New Media and the Arts, which was a performing arts center and art gallery. I then went on to to serve as the artistic director of a 2000-seat theatre in CT. I've worked on Final Cut Pro for ten years, but never (unfortunately) had the chance to move into an edit house. Currently I'm working on a documentary film, tentatively titled SUNSHINE REBELS: Gotham's Lost Tribe (see my site, http://www.dv-arts.com for more on that). My dilemma - at least one of them (hardeehar) is that I'd like to be in the "mainstream" and employable, should i find the opportunity. I just feel a bit stuck, as at least with FCP it was fairly ubiquitous. As to Evan's presentation, he may be a bit biased, and perhaps a bit cocky, too. I don't know about the bias part. But he seems to make a good argument to the pluses, especially if XML is coming. Would you agree with him that there are really only two or things missing in FCPX now? Or are there things he left out? If so, what are they? I have to say that after watching the presentation I began to wonder if it's possible that Apple is actually - once again, they've done it before - ahead of the curve, and our response is more to the change in workflow, which we've gotten used to for so many years now. Change does come, after all, and time savers and functionality are a plus, if the "goods" and power are there behind the conceptual shifts and workflow changes. David, what are you editing on? I'd be very curious - and would certainly appreciate - to hear what other folks are doing. Premiere? Avid? What?
@Stephen Snow
by David Lawrence
Hi Stephen,

You're right that there's no single consensus on which way to go, especially on this forum. But if you read some of the great COW articles published over the past 6 months and poke around the discussion threads, I think you can start to put together a pretty good picture of trends.

This thread's article by Mark Raudonis is not just an interesting story, but the first of what will likely be many similar stories coming from the high end of the industry in the next six months. Avid makes complete sense for companies with enterprise-scale needs like Mark's. Avid is and will remain the industry standard for the foreseeable future, especially in production towns like LA.

Walter Biscardi and Richard Harrington have both written about moving to Premiere Pro. Harrington discusses the benefits of a cross-platform workflow moving between FCP7 Macs and and Premiere Pro PCs.

Biscardi recently announced and describes the thinking behind his company's decision to go with both Premiere Pro and Avid.

For an objective look at FCPX, Jeremy Garchow wrote a terrific article about the strengths of FCPX and Mark Morache has an excellent real-world case study of using FCPX for short-form broadcast.

Since you're coming from ten years of FCP, Premiere Pro will be the easiest transition path moving forward. Its tools and timeline closely match FCP and importing projects from FCP works fairly well. You will learn it easily. All reports are that Adobe is getting an earful of feedback from new FCP converts and is listening very closely. CS6 is highly anticipated and a big opportunity for Adobe to win a huge new market. Rest assured, your purchase of Premiere Pro is money well spent.

If your concern is staying as employable and mainstream as possible, Avid is definitely a great way to go. Yes, the entry cost is higher, both in price and learning curve. But once you learn it, you'll have skills that are valued throughout the industry. Avid has an educational discount that makes the full version of Media Composer 6 along with 4 years of support available for $299. If you have educational or non-profit affiliations, you may be able to qualify. You can always call Avid sales and find out.

About Evan's presentation and FCPX in general - my issue isn't with missing features in the current version or even with Evan promoting a product he likes. I take issue with Apple's wholesale dismissal of an entire industry's standards, practices and language. I don't appreciate the world's largest technology company telling its most highly-skilled customers, "Hey, you're doing it wrong. Forget everything you know and have been doing for decades. Our new way is better." I find this thinking breathtakingly arrogant.

I like a lot about FCPX. For me and many others, the deal breaker is the trackless, ripple-only magnetic timeline and the many editorial workflows it fails to consider. I've written extensively about this and we've had some great conversations about the philosophy of editorial UI here on the COW.

The questions you have to ask with FCPX is "better for whom and better for what?" I feel Evan majorly glosses over these questions in his presentation. Fine if you already know what you're doing and want to learn something new, but if you're new to editing and don't know what you don't know, listening to him speak, you may get the impression that FCPX is all you'll ever need to learn. All I can say is good luck with that if you want to work in the big leagues. FCPX is useful and many find it fast and fun to use. The definition of "Pro" is in flux. Many businesses will put it to work. But it will be a very long time before FCPX achieves the kind of top industry acceptance FCP Studio had at its peak. If ever.

Apple has every right to do this. But when they summarily pull the plug on a thriving, 11-year-old legacy ecosystem leaving no upgrade path forward, they shouldn't be surprised when businesses like BMP move on. No doubt they expect to make up the loss in volume.

More than anything, FCPX is an epic marketing failure, a case study for future business classes in how not to treat business customers. If Apple had simply called it Edit Pro Supergood or anything else and given customers fair warning of their plans, I don't think there would have been any controversy with its release. Secrecy and ignoring feedback may work brilliantly in the consumer space, but in the enterprise world, rules are very different. Apple can afford to take a gamble on FCPX, but I doubt many businesses like BMP can now afford to take a gamble on Apple.

That said, I often recommend FCPX, mostly to colleagues who need to cut video on occasion, need more than iMovie, and have zero interest in working as editors professionally. It's cheap, powerful, and easy to learn the basics.

If I were in your shoes, I'd download the trial and give it a try. It never hurts to learn and you may like it. The one caveat is if you're not in a hurry, wait for the major update that's supposed to drop sometime early this year. The fact that Evan publicly stated that he'll be moving his facilities to FCPX after the update means expectations for meaningful improvement are high. Many believe the quality and substance of what Apple delivers will be a strong indicator of FCPX's future. One of the reasons this Debate forum is relatively quiet these days is because until the next update, there's really not that much more to say. Since the trial only lasts for 30 days, you'll have a better idea of what FCPX will ultimately offer if you can afford to wait.

As far as what I'm using, I'm still on FCP7 legacy. Just today one of my best clients emailed with a quick job recutting a promo we did two years ago -- they need to shave it down by 40 seconds for a new market. These client requests come in all the time. I need backwards compatibility for years of work. I and my partners in LA plan to stay on FCP legacy for another year or so. When we have to upgrade our Macs and legacy finally breaks, we'll likely move to Premiere Pro because we already own it as part of the CS suite. Premiere makes sense for us for all the reasons Biscardi and Harrington explain. I also made a point to relearn Avid over the holiday break, having not touched it for over 20 years when it was the front end to two 3/4" decks. After a couple days and an excellent online tutorial from Steve Hullfish, I was back in the saddle feeling perfectly comfortable. FCP legacy is still my favorite timeline UI of all. I'll hate giving it up but I'm ready to move forward.

I'm also keeping an eye on Lightworks because it might be awesome. I even keep FCPX around in hopes that it'll eventually talk to the rest of the world well enough to be useful as a DAM. I don't like cutting with it but the organization tools are nice and I would use them if I could export keyword collections and read them as bins containing clips in another NLE.

I think if you tried to find any consensus right now, it would boil down to this:

1) be prepared to change
2) try everything
3) use what works for you

Hope that answers your questions, good luck with whatever path you take!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
@David Lawrence
by Craig Seeman
He does a great job highlighting FCPX's strengths and completely ignores its weaknesses for many editorial workflows.

The weakness are widely known. The strengths not reported at all. There's absolutely no reason for him to recap the weaknesses . . . especially if one believes they will be addressed. At that time he told me he had a wait and see attitude. He said he wasn't using it for any paying jobs and had a wait and see attitude. His presentation was why it was worth the wait for him . . . based on the history.

Three months later he gave another presentation. He said he was a beta tester. He would move his facility with the next update. I suspect he feels significant weaknesses have been addressed.

@Stephen Snow
by Craig Seeman
I saw Evan speak then, and spoke to him afterwards. He liked what he saw but was genuinely cautious about his own facility.

I saw Evan speak three months later. He said he was a beta tester. He said he was going to move his facility, Outpost Digital, to FCPX on the next release. 50 seats (at least ).

@Asad Kazmi
by Leon Unger
This guy is delusional . I another good market men, like Steve Jobs. He only is a show man . FCPx is still an old APP in a good face. Is like Gisele Budchen with a heart of Gary oldman for example . FCPx istill offer proxy files ! I edditing in 4k diretely on timeline, no conversion at all . Premiere CS5.5 and AVID 5 or 6 is far, far, far better than FCP, 7, X , Y, W, Z .... X is just a letter. FCP means and old and bad app.
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Max Kaiser
I think the inability to re-connect clips in the timeline in FCPX was the nail in the coffin for us, and most other RED users. That is the foundation of a lot of the RED/FCP workflow and that just kills us. I was having fun with it and then - full stop!

When I look under the hood of FCPX, and the new database design, I wonder, "this might be REALLY hard for Apple to fix - if they even see it as a problem." That's what gives me the shivers. There is no other way to work with this camera and have a good, professional color workflow utilizing 444 color-space and use FCPX.

Or maybe RED just needs to make a plug-in...

I really get where Apple is going, and I agree that this fits with a very Jobs-like feeling of - this (like XSAN, XSERVE) etc. just doesn't fit where are going and, oh, by the way, the sales of FCP matter about 1/100000 to the iphone and that direction, so really, why bother. They got Quicktime from futzing around with FCP, and that might have been all they needed...

The AVID thing sounds pretty cool, but I notice he didn't talk to much about $$. Must be spendy...

Max

Max Kaiser
Director
Hand Crank Films
http://www.handcrankfilms.com

Still Rockin' FCP 7, thinking about Premiere
OS 10.7
EPIC/7D/5D
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Robert Shaver
"Don't forget Apple aren't the only company to drop support for software or hardware."

No, but they are the worst of the lot, IMHO.

Make no mistake, Apple makes the finest computer hardware I've ever seen. (It's build quality is similar to the military avionics I've worked on in the past.) Their OS since OSX it excellent as well. But their business policies on backward compatibility has got to be the worst I've encountered starting with the Apple 2e and forward.

So I'm not at all surprised by them pulling the rug out from under the pro apps. (Where's Shake gone?) And frankly they will make more money with FCP-X sold to home-movie editors than they will ever make with the pro apps. So this may be their best option from the profit/stockholders perspective.

It's disappointing but, if you've been paying attention it shouldn't be all that surprising.

Me, I'm moving to Adobe on the Mac for now but my next hardware upgrade will be to a Windows 7 64 bit OS.

OUT-OF-THE-BOX-IDEA
I think a consortium of professional media software companies should define an open source OS like BSD or Linux and build all their apps to work on that. Then we could leave Microsoft and Apple behind. (OS-X is built on BSD so it should be good enough.)
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
wow Mark Raudonis defended Apple and FCPX and spoke highly about it at the PreNAB Editors' Lounge and now this.

hmmm... about this Mac Pro vs Windows based PC's, every Empire will fall maybe it's Apple time. There mistake. Doh!

Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[Thomas Frank] "every Empire will fall maybe it's Apple time."

Could happen much further down the road, but certainly not due to the FCPX and Mac Pro problems.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Rob Porta
I cant' agree more. Apple making everything look and feel like an iOS app is telling me they no longer care about professionals. Since the release of Lion I have moved away from all Apple software.

If Google can make an OS I'd move away from Apple all together. After 15 years of being a die hard Apple user I am officially done.

Maybe Steve Jobs is the only one who can run Apple. Looks like things started to fall apart when his health kept him away from the day to day.

Sad.

Rob Porta
rporta.com
rporta.com/raindoggs
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[Rob Porta] "Maybe Steve Jobs is the only one who can run Apple. Looks like things started to fall apart when his health kept him away from the day to day.
"


Not sure things are falling apart at the moment at Apple.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Don Walker
[Rob Porta] "Maybe Steve Jobs is the only one who can run Apple. Looks like things started to fall apart when his health kept him away from the day to day."

After reading the biography, I have to believe that the overall FPCX design, the behavior at NAB, and the resulting killing off of FCS, were a direct result of Steve's way of doing things. I would even bet that both the decision to take over the Super Meet and the decision to kill 7 were made by Steve and no one else.
Steve Jobs was a genius artist, whose tenacity translated into good fortunes for Apple, but he didn't care about other people's needs if it got in the way of his "Art". IMHO. I say that as a 26 year editor who loves FCPX.

I think going forward we will slowly see a more friendly corporate attitude from Apple, hopefully not at the expense of truly great products.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Tim Wilson
[Don Walker] "After reading the biography, I have to believe that the overall FPCX design, the behavior at NAB, and the resulting killing off of FCS, were a direct result of Steve's way of doing things."

I couldn't agree more. This was EXACTLY in keeping with the philosophy that guided him from the beginning.

I wrote about this in my tribute to his passing, which you can find here.

In the context of the article as a whole, I mention that I ran the piece by my father, who worked with Steve from 1979-1985, and looks back on it as one of the best parts of his life. He says I got this right, which I wasn't surprised to hear. I quoted Steve.

Emphasis added here to highlight why I think Don is reading Steve's bio, and his decisions around FCPX, EXACTLY right.


In a 1985 interview, at 29 and still at Apple, Steve said, "[W]e didn't build Mac for anybody else. We built it for ourselves. We were the group of people who were going to judge whether it was great or not. We weren't going to go out and do market research."

In fact, Steve openly mocked IBM for their reliance on market research, citing it as the primary evidence that they had no pride in their own work. If they did, said Steve, they wouldn't have made PCjr. And what was so wrong with PCjr? "It seems clear to me that they were designing that on the basis of market research for a specific market segment, for a specific demographic type of customer."

While nobody should be held in their 50s to what they said at 29 -- and Steve was surely oversimplifying for effect -- his approach remained remarkably consistent. A 2008 profile of Apple in Fortune observed, "Apple scoffs at the notion of a target market. It doesn't even conduct focus groups. 'You can't ask people what they want if it's around the next corner,' says Steve Jobs."

Is any of this sounding familiar yet? No? How about this: when challenged in that 1985 interview that the new Mac left its entire customer base "with incompatible, out-of-date products," Steve replied that compatibility with the past was “too limiting. [W]e needed a technology that would make the thing radically easier to use and more powerful at the same time, so we had to make a break. We just had to do it.”

Let’s review. Sacrificing compatibly for their own idea of increased simplicity and power, explicitly rejecting the value of customer input because Apple knows the future and customers don’t. Creating only for themselves, equating pride in their work with disregard for specific market segments, their work judged as successful only by themselves.

NOW is this sounding familiar?


Again, in context, please note that I said a lot of NICE stuff about Steve too, but the fact is that he openly mocked the idea of listening to customers, in unambiguous language, from before there was any such thing as a Mac. He had no use for customer input, and no use for anyone who valued it.

This worked in a lot of ways, but geezers like me who were around for all of this know that every one of those changes left large swaths of the existing customer base behind. He was willing to nuke his existing customer base over and over, to build his future customer base.

As for the negative reaction to FCPX, I doubt that the team expected it, but I doubt that they thought much about it in advance either. If they were still working for Steve after any length of time, they had adopted meaningful parts of his philosophy, the core of which has been from the very, very beginning, "We built it for ourselves."

A specialized market has specific needs, though. Needs that may not coincide with Apple's intuition, or what they think is interesting or beautiful. If it works for you, it works. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. It's all good. You were never specifically in the plan, ever. Not in 1999, not in 2011. "We built it for ourselves."
+2
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Bill Davis
[Tim Wilson] "Let’s review. Sacrificing compatibly for their own idea of increased simplicity and power, explicitly rejecting the value of customer input because Apple knows the future and customers don’t. Creating only for themselves, equating pride in their work with disregard for specific market segments, their work judged as successful only by themselves.

NOW is this sounding familiar?"


This is perfect.

On one side, you have large facilities who are going elsewhere because the tool doesn't meet their needs.

And on the other, you have guys like me who find X to be a truly superb tool for making the video I need to make for my clients.

If the "focus group of high-end editing shops" approach means I miss out on what I need - and have to buy bloated, more expensive software that must remain compatible with processes that I will never use - e.g. OMF export to Pro Tools houses for sweetening - then I don't want that view to dominate.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Philip Imbrenda
I have been using Adobe Premiere on a PC Z600 with Matrox Mini for a year now. I like it but it's still buggy and I have to do a work around when I compress 30 second spots to send to Tv Stations, the compressor in Adobe needs work, I don't know if this problem is just on the PC side, on the plus side Adobe has a lot more going on with the Creative suite package for Audio and using it with After effects than FCP. I can do real time edits with up to 8 layers with fx and filters in my opinion you do get more bang for your buck. One thing that I found disappointing was when I called for support I got someone from India on the other line that I could not understand but I guess that's what most of these company's are doing now.

Tv One Productions
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Tim Wilson
[tony west] "Did they have the choice of just waiting a few months?

What's the hurry?"


As the Editor-in-Chief of Creative COW Magazine, I asked Mark this very question.

He pointed out that it wasn't in a hurry at all. The decision has been almost an entire year in the making, going back to when he first saw X in February 2011.

The additional factor isn't just the specifics of what's in and not in FCPX. It's what that release told him about Apple.

First, he says, even though we see that Apple is indeed adding the features they said they would, we don't feel like Apple's view of the future is compatible with ours.

For me, that's one of his most important points. He agrees that Apple is following through on their post-NAB promises! That's not the issue. The issue is that, we (meaning us, not BMP specifically) have been waiting for forever for Apple to give us their roadmap, and well, now they have.

Which leads to the second dynamic that Mark identified, that it's a different Avid than it used to be.

That also struck me as one of his most important points. I didn't go this far in my questions to him, but I'm willing to bet that, without a new Avid, the post-FCPX evaluation would have been far different.

I didn't ask, because that's purely speculative of course. The fact is that BMP found that it IS a new Avid, and that the new Avid lines up nicely with what BMP sees in its own future.

Your mileage will vary, but Mark is very articulate about reasons for all this.

So again, the evaluation of both products and VENDOR PARTNERS to go forward with? Done in nothing resembling a hurry. It was a well-considered decision over the course of a year of constant evaluation, by somebody whose JOB is constant evaluation in the service of making these very kinds of decisions.

As an additional editor's note, I loved working with Mark on this. He's been around the COW since 2003, and I've always enjoyed his positive outlook, his generosity across multiple forums, his professionalism, and how well he articulates his passions. He's also got a great sense of humor. We laughed a lot while we were talking about this stuff, and it was never at anybody else's expense.

(Laughing, but not laughing AT somebody? As a New Yorker, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, and am not sure how I feel about it.)

Speaking as a reader of the Creative COW Magazine in both its print and online editions, I have to say I really enjoyed reading this. Great insights into a company that really has been at the cutting of edge of a lot of things for a very long time.

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine

Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
Tim, thanks for the thoughtful response and I enjoyed reading your article.

Mark sounds like a classy individual.
[Tim Wilson] "We laughed a lot while we were talking about this stuff, and it was never at anybody else's expense. "

I am glad he has found the tools that he needs for his business. Keep getting the job done and making money. Keeping hiring others so they can make money. I love it.

I was just looking for more insight (while I appreciate what he shared).

[Tim Wilson] "we don't feel like Apple's view of the future is compatible with ours. "

My follow up is.......why? I wanted to know what he thought Apple's view of the future was, and why he thought that.

Did someone at Apple come up to him and say "look dude, we don't care about what you are doing"
Not in those exact words : )

If he feels say....... I need to do XYZ AND FCPX is incapable of doing XYZ and won't ever be, I want to know what XYZ is.
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Philip Imbrenda
We have 5 FCP edit bays and 2 Adobe Premiere PC based bay's I am not a fan of Avid because they cost us money in the past and because of poor support and expensive upgrades. The FCP editors do not want to go to another platform but I know that Apple has thrown the old FCP interface under the bus and you should be aware that Thunderbolt is about to force many of us to retire our Mac pro systems, the plus side is that Thunderbolt looks promising if it takes off as expected. Apple is shipping the new Macs equipped with this technology and as I see it will devalue the older models. This can mean larger company's will take hit if they need to replace a lot of system's we will wait to see where this is going before we change our systems

Tv One Productions
@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Alexi Danchev
What about Adobe's efforts with the Premiere? While the Photoshop and After Effects are already classical software, it seems Premiere has to do a lot to approach the standards of Avid and FCP. Your opinions?

A.Danchev
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by David Wolf
Avid provides an end to end shared workflow and collaboration with ProTools. Let's face it, at the end of the day Avid will be there for the professional with great tech support and products. Apple will be pushing iphones, ipads, ipods, and whatever products they think the customer will want with a cavalier attitude. Apple deserved to lose this account. Many people have built their business up around FCP 7 and have bee totally screwed by Apple. How could any professional editor even want to support a company like that?
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[David Wolf] "Many people have built their business up around FCP 7 and have bee totally screwed by Apple. How could any professional editor even want to support a company like that?"

And FCP7 still works and will continue to work, OK a future update to Lion may break it, but then the answer is simple, don't update Lion.

I know Editors who are using Avid Software Versions from 5 years ago on OS9!

By the time FCP7 becomes completely redundant FCPX will have matured.

Don't forget Apple aren't the only company to drop support for software or hardware.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Steve Connor] "And FCP7 still works and will continue to work"

If your using tapeless then FCP7 has been "sickly" for years. The rendering and ingest time for many types of what is now common media is beyond slow. With Legacy lagging far behind Avid and PPro's last releases many post facilities were think of changing platforms before X came out - only waiting around to see what Apple was going to do. For a reality show with 22 cameras of multi-cam shooting every possible flavor of media file FCP7 is an anachronism. the only reason I post so much on this forum is that I'm constantly waiting for FCP renders to finish. The idea that Legacy is going to satisfy until X matures is a little naive.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[Herb Sevush] "The idea that Legacy is going to satisfy until X matures is a little naive."

Fair point, I'm just saying FCP7 will still be usable for some time, I'm not saying it's ideal.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by yusuf karriem
Hi everybody,
I'm relatively new in the industry. After reading all the comments on avid and FCPX, where does premier fit in?
I'm a corporate,wedding and event videographer and i have been using premier from start. I would appreciate your feedbacks.
Thanks guys,
Yusuf
@Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Sam H. Shirakawa
maybe I missed it, but could someone at BMP who KNOWS please tell us whether the switch to Avid was also a mass switch to the PC platform, or are they sticking with MAC????

SAM
Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Mark Raudonis
Sam,

We did NOT switch to PC's. We already have a fleet of relatively new MacPro towers. No need to
swap those out.

Mark

Re: @Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Sam H. Shirakawa
Thx for responding promptly. After the truly cruel screw job Apple perped (of which Steve must have known and approved before he died), can you conceive of ever going back to FCP, even if it produces a system that self-color corrects, -finishes and -distributes your shows? In my view, that would be a very tough call.

SAM
+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by kim krause
strangely, i've been getting calls from clients who have switched to fcpX because it works so well with davinci resolve. with davinci becoming the true replacement for color, i would have to agree with their decision to go with X. it is super simple to use and i wouldn't be surprised if it starts to win back users once they get the multi cam, and monitor output working (should be very soon by the look of it)
+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
Despite being an Apple "apologist" I think I would have made the same decision if I was in charge at BMP.

FCPX is in no way ready for their type of workflow and because Apple chooses not to do roadmaps, I don't see what other choice they had.

Apple must have known stuff like this would happen.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
[Steve Connor] "I don't see what other choice they had.
"


Did they have the choice of just waiting a few months?

What's the hurry? They had been working in that 32 bit world all this time.

Sitting there rendering and rendering and rendering and rendering : )

I don't watch ANY of those shows he listed so I was just wondering, after X adds features in a couple of months why couldn't it be used for shows like that?

If he liked the style of X and WANTED to use it?

On another note Steve, do like how you can grab a video clip with it's audio and just drag it under a primary video clip with it's audio, drag the audio handles and make a j-cut or l-cut in seconds?

I find that very useful. Is it just me?
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[tony west] "I find that very useful. Is it just me?"

No it isn't just you, just one of the things I like about FCPX.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Gary Hazen
[Steve Connor] " I think I would have made the same decision if I was in charge at BMP."

As would anyone that works in broadcast. Banking on an empty promise, "it will be fixed soon" is putting yourself in harms way.



[tony west] " ...after X adds features in a couple of months why couldn't it be used for shows like that?"

Are you positive that these features will be added in a few months? Will they work as advertised or will there be bugs to be worked out? Apparently Mark isn't feeling all warm and fuzzy about Apple's promises.

Also (as noted in the article) shared storage is critical for BMP's work flow. Is there a solid sharing solution coming out soon for FCPX?

What about training 100+ editors?

Which scenario would be the most time consuming?

A. Transitioning a team from FCP7 to FCPX.

B. Transitioning a team from FCP7 to Media Composer.


FCPX can and does work fine for individuals and small scale operations. For large broadcast operations it has no place.
+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
[Gary Hazen] "Are you positive that these features will be added in a few months?"

I can't be positive Gary, I can only tell you what I think.

I don't think they want to lose you our any other editor.

I think they want to separate themselves from other NLE's so that people will have to buy THIER computers if they want to use it.

I think that X will find it's way into "big broadcast" just like fcp did, first with individuals then with small
houses.

I think that there will be too many people using it for it to be ignored in the industry.

On game days when people walk into the truck and see us working with it I keep hearing the same thing.

"I'm going to download that"

[Gary Hazen] "What about training 100+ editors?"

To be honest Gary, I would be shocked if some of those 100+ editors have not already downloaded it on their personal computers and know how to use some of it's features.

Also I don't know if they use Motion.
If they do, no learning curve there.
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Andy Field
[tony west] "I think that X will find it's way into "big broadcast" just like fcp did, first with individuals then with small
houses."


Tony - it took a decade for FCP7 to get the market share and trust of the professional editing community.

It took one day for FCP X to lose it.

Why would Apple trash a decade of goodwill and trust and then hope the pros will stick around until they get it right when other NLE's do all that and more right now.

I went to NAB in 2000 with a large bank loan to buy an AVID starting my own company - it was the year Apple had FCP 1 on the show floor - I sat at their booth all day using it and couldn't believe it did nearly everything I needed (remember DV was THE format for independent companies back then) for a 1000.00 AVID lost me at hello on price.

Now Apple's lost everyone who loved the complexity and flexibility of the product..and it's vast community of plug ins and external solutions. It's astonishing to hear so many "Apple will fix this in the next x number of releases" comments from people who don't have a clue what Apple will do. Personal feelings and thoughts about what a company that literally tossed the entire professional editing community under the bus have no basis in reality.

Companies must switch because FCP7 WILL break soon -- either with a LION update (remember Apple says no more FCP 7 support so good luck with that) or a new camera format that won't work with the program. Every FCP7 plugin developer's business vanished the day X came out. The few still in the game are producing nice, even stunning plugins for FCP X -- but all of them know they are taking a big gamble -- low prices, low margins, low return on a "we hope pros start buying this soon" because Prosumers aren't going to spend a lot for a plug in when the entire program's under 300 dollars.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
You make some good points Andy, I can only speak for myself

When I answer this.......

[Andy Field] "when other NLE's do all that and more right now."

because I don't want to edit like that anymore. I don't want to go back to that style of editing. (tracks)

I'm mad about my plugins that I paid for also but I'm mad at the people I bought them from.

Update your crap I bought from you. I bought it from you not Apple. Update your crap and give it to me because I paid for it.

BTW, I was talking about the features that THEY (Apple) said they were going to add, like multi-cam and monitor out. It was meant more as a quote than a guess.

You mentioned plugins,

that in itself has made our jobs easier. You drop your video into software that somebody else made and it looks cool.

It just seems ironic.
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Andy Neil
[Andy Field]"I went to NAB in 2000 with a large bank loan to buy an AVID starting my own company - it was the year Apple had FCP 1 on the show floor - I sat at their booth all day using it and couldn't believe it did nearly everything I needed (remember DV was THE format for independent companies back then) for a 1000.00 AVID lost me at hello on price."

What's telling about your story is that other, established post facilities were also at NAB that year. They looked at FCP 1 and saw it as a joke. It continued to be an industry joke for years because it didn't support video out except through FireWire, it didn't have more than two channels of audio input or output, and it had no multi-cam. It was not right for any but specific workflows (like yours I guess). Now, you are on the other side of that story. FCP X is not right for your workflow (I guess)), but it is for some.

I don't like a piece of software for it's "complexity". I like it for how well it helps me do my job. I don't have a problem creating the same kinds of stories in X as I do in 7, or in Avid for that matter. Sometimes X is faster and better than the alternatives, sometimes not.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
Brilliant Andy Neil.





[Andy Neil] "I don't like a piece of software for it's "complexity". I like it for how well it helps me do my job. "

Here is an example of just getting footage out of the Gopro.

These are their instructions not mine. I just scanned them in as is.
Just one reason why the PC is not right for me.

They both get the job done.

But I'll take option b

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[tony west] "These are their instructions not mine. I just scanned them in as is.
Just one reason why the PC is not right for me."


Um, not to be antagonistic or anything, 'cause I have no skin in this game, but they both say the exact same thing. The only difference is that on the PC instructions they actually explain how to open the "removable disk drive" to see the files. Had they mentioned that on the Mac you also have to click on the drive icon on the desktop to see the DCIM folder, then just click on the GOPRO folder to find your files, the instructions would have looked pretty similar.

Granted, certain software on the Mac can hijack your system and automatically suck photos off a drive, if you're into that sort of thing. I suppose there are similar options on the PC.

Honestly, they're pretty much the same beast these days.

Chris
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Leon Unger
Windows can do all for you automatically, when you put a blank DVD, or camera. I particulary , wants to do all by myself, putting my brain to work, assigning all the apps i need , by miself.Not need my computer decide things for me.
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
Best thing Windows can do Automatically is crash and security updates every week! lol

+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Thomas Frank] "Best thing Windows can do Automatically is crash and security updates every week! lol"

I use both Mac and WIndows regularly. I have to. While Windows 7 has come a long way, those security updates along with virus software updates are a bit of a drag. There's nothing like troubleshooting a .dll issues to make you love Macs. Windows is a pain to troubleshoot. When you look at the value of a computer and an NLE, downtime adds to the cost of ownership.

+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
I agree, me coming from the Windows world full time can only say OSX all the way.
Lets not get into Linux... until we see full clean installed version with a strong hardware support this is not a debate.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[Thomas Frank] "Best thing Windows can do Automatically is crash and security updates every week! lol"

Again, I really don't have much skin in this game, and I'm a current Mac user, but these kinds of posts kinda crack me up. When I ran Windows I could go weeks and weeks without a crash. And Apple pumps out at least as many security fixes these days. Plus, Apple is becoming annoying with the frequency with which they release point updates to their OS which breaks a bunch of stuff.

I'm seriously thinking I'll go back to windows when I use up my current Mac Pro.

Chris
@Chris Conlee
by Thomas Frank
And how often did you restart your system after its updates or installs?
Don't get me wrong Windows 7 is pretty stable compared the previous version, but not as stable as OS X or Linux giving the nature of the oldest and stable unix os.

Besides Windows is still not as user friendly then OSX.

@Thomas Frank
by Leon Unger
Its because Micosoft maintains a large team to constantly improve Windows. Apple do not have this. Pro Apps divison is about to be closed. If you see the pro apps site , thei are featuring 2009 new releases .
Windows can even suffer at times because of his boldness, and that because is done to the world, while the mac,lives in a little and unreal world, where everything and everyone has to shape according to him, and not the opposite. CUDA? FERMI? TESLA? HPC?
For the Mac, they are just acronyms for us windows, is about very very powerfull new hardware, not available to mac, and is sufficient to render a 2 hour movie in 4K, filled with effects, compositions, and color corrections, etc., in 29 minutes, in my 32 Opterons,with 256GB of ram TESLA2050 .... Years away from mac hardware.
@Leon Unger
by Craig Seeman
Its because Micosoft maintains a large team to constantly improve Windows. Apple do not have this
Pro Apps divison is about to be closed.

You truly have no idea what you're talking about. Stop trolling.
It took years before Microsoft improved XP and Vista was a DISASTER.
Pro Apps are doing fine even though FCPX isn't close to FCS3 in adoption it is number 2 in the Mac App Store here.

Nearly every PC maker has declining sales while the Mac still climbs. These are documented facts.

It seems you're more interested in trolling than substantiating anything with facts.

@Craig Seeman
by Leon Unger
OK ! You know ? This here it seems like a bunch of guys in a bar arguing about any sport that a player should have done this or that, or the Coatch should have done this or that, or put a player in the game rather than other.
The real truth is that this whole discussion will not lead to anything, neither Microsoft nor Apple nor Avid will not give us a penny,or do whatever it is, because we think this or that or like systems or applications have this feature or another. These companies simply ignore that people use their products think or want. They're not there, do not care, do not give a damn, and I really do not know why I came here.and I do not know why I came here. I have more to do. So I wish everyone luck in life, your choices are very happy, and that everyone is rich and instead of doing something we can pay someone to do for us. A big hug to everyone.I wont return to here. Be happy you all.
@Leon Unger
by Craig Seeman
Just argue facts.
Fact - Windows computers allow for much more hardware customization. There are very good programs that are Windows only (and there are some which are Mac only).
Fact - Pro Apps is developing FCPX, Logic and other programs. Don't make a false claim about that.
Personal Fact - I run multiple Mac and Windows systems as I need to.
Fact - Mac OS has major upgrades more frequently.
Fact - In the USA Apple is third is sales behind HP and Dell, putting it ahead of all the other computer systems which are Windows based. I believe Apple is number 5 or 6 world wide though.
Fact - Mac sales (not iOS) is going up compared to nearly all other computer makers.

ttp://gigaom.com/apple/macs-still-growing-while-rest-of-u-s-pc-market-stagnates/

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/01/12/apples-killing-your-pc.asp...

Like any good sports argument you can look at the box score and statistics and record books. The numbers might not be the whole story but it's the place to start from.

@Craig Seeman
by Leon Unger
These are my last words here. Ideed.
In the mid 80's to mid os 90´s, had many film manufacturers in the world. with the growth of film, video, TV, all in digital domain, these companies were closing their doors and became only the Kodak. Of course, lately the sales of KODAK films grew, because Kodak is alone making it yet. We have thousands of PC manufacturers for the same market. There is only one Apple. That's why the competition is beneficial for the market. Like all manufacturers want to survive, they improve their products and always add a differential on it.
Here in Brazil, until 1996 was forbidden from entering any imported, any product from abroad. So, Brazilians products was expensive, obsolete and bad, as are apple products, because there was no competition.
Today with the open market, Brasil is the 6th economic power in the world. Brazilians left 1.18 Bilion dolars in tousism in 2011. Brazilian products have superior quality to many countries. Our products are respected and purchased by thousands around the world.From food to airplanes, and a entire module in space station and 5 new communications satellites for european consortium. I know what talking about. It is perfectly logical to understand why Apple's sales have grown. If you have a market that buys 100 popsicles and 15 oranges, and you have 150 popsicles manufacturers and only one producer of oranges .... Got it? Ok Now i´m going. Be happy you all.
@Leon Unger
by Thomas Frank
You sound like a news headline reader. ;)
Are we talking about fruits or computers? We don't by fruits that need 100 gallons of fuel it's bad for the envorment.

@Thomas Frank
by Leon Unger
Do not belittle my intelligence. you understand my metaphor perfectly. As the headlines, force of habit ... Oh my God, I said he would not talk anymore. Now I went, not to return.
Re: @Thomas Frank
by tony west
Leon, I would hate to see you leave the page patly because of a something I started.

I think we can learn from each other and work together.
We should try our best to respect each other and not get personal.

Maybe we can move away from this topic.
Re: @Thomas Frank
by Leon Unger
Tony, you do not stated anything that bothers me. Believe me. I simply realise that this discussion is meaningless. I dislike Apple and its products. I have my opinion, my position strong made about apple. So its turns me a solo voice in here. Im not american, so apple do not have the same value for me, and i forguet that. Americans will carry on apple in their back and gave all this money to support apple, no matter it is good or bad it is only because they like it,and i forget that. Is more or less the same relationship with the Brazilians have with soccer and the soccer teams. We have bad teams here, who do not win games, but they still have fanatics who do not want to see how their team is a failure, and that i forget again. Apple is almost a deity to the Americans, and I forgot that too. But here in Brazil, it's just a computer company. So I preferred to shut me up and I draw from this. was not your fault at all. Be ccol , be happy.
Re: @Craig Seeman
by Steve Connor
[Leon Unger] "These are my last words here. Ideed."

No need for that

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Chris Conlee] "Granted, certain software on the Mac can hijack your system and automatically suck photos off a drive, if you're into that sort of thing."

That is the key. For a lot of people that's a major time saver. It decreases the risk of human error. Ease of use is not something to be tossed aside as a feature of no consequence.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
The same would be, for mac or pc do this.

They couldn't write it that way because the are not the same.

That mac pops the camera up on the desktop as soon as you plug it in. The pc doesn't. see line 3

Not a big deal but not the same either.

I just like fewer clicks to do the same thing.
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Michael Aranyshev
[Andy Neil] "it didn't support video out except through FireWire"

Not true
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Bill Davis
[Gary Hazen] "FCPX can and does work fine for individuals and small scale operations. For large broadcast operations it has no place.
"


You just left off the key last word. Yet.

Yours is a decent argument on it's face. No quarrel.

However, the missing concept is that FCPX makes MUCH more sense inside a particular view of the editing future than the old construct. And while the unique needs of the large organization may trump in the short run, the power of the database welded to the NLE will, I believe, trump in the long run.

Now, Avid, Premier and other software (including FCP Legacy) have rudimentary and sometimes even solid databases built in them as well, but those are largely constructed around large organizational needs, not individual empowerment.

Only in X (at this point, anyway) is the database given equal preference and prominence with the entire structure of the software re-write in an affordable package. Of all the editing options out there - all except X were born in an era where the core was the video and audio - and the metadata was "bolted on" to that convention as and when it could be.

The key difference in X, to my eye as a user of Legacy for 15 years and now X for six solid months is that the team understood that in a future of rapidly increasing souces of content, larger groups of files to manage, and ever increasing complexity, the only way to empower the editor to learn to better manage assets is to give them robust tools right inside the NLE itself.

Will this be the way all NLES go eventually? Anyone's guess, but I suspect so - and for simple reasons of economy. The "editor" once just cut stuff. But in the modern world, the editor now is commonly the point where assets are just just "edited" - but imagined, sourced, created, manipulated, downloaded, and above all else, managed.

That means "video as a part of a database" is a superior construct than video as one thing - and its management structure as another, separate thing.

If you must keep using legacy workflows - feel free. If your paycheck is based on being "the editor" in a shop where others are available to manage the data, set up and run the storage tree, and tell you what to cut, when to cut it, and perhaps sometimes how to cut it - by all means learn to use a tool that better supports that.

But also watch closely. I suspect that the legacy NLE providers are hard at work building on top of their old style "database over here - editor over there" traditional software models - and nudging them closer to the X idea where there's very little separation between, "key wording", "searching", "editing", and the "distribution/output" process itself.

Remember, once upon a time, a crew to shoot ENG footage was 3-4 people. Producer, Camera Op, Talent, and perhaps a Sound Person.

Today it's ONE person sent out to cover the gig. They have to do all that by themselves.

Good, bad or indifferent, that's the way of modern ENG coverage. It's what stations are willing to pay for. And highly skilled folks who can do all three, (plus write their own scripts and know enough IT to go back to the van and link up to the station servers to upload the result) are the ones with the jobs today.

Will "editing" drift the same way? We shall see.

But in another generation, I don't want to be the guy with exclusively "editing" skills, when the "editing" gets done by the camera person, the producer, or even the talent (which might be just ONE person!) out on location. That would suck.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Thomas Frank
[Gary Hazen] "FCPX can and does work fine for individuals and small scale operations. For large broadcast operations it has no place."
What is a large broadcast operation project? Why isn't it? There are reports even here that it has been done.

+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[tony west] "What's the hurry? They had been working in that 32 bit world all this time."

[tony west] "I don't watch ANY of those shows he listed so I was just wondering, after X adds features in a couple of months why couldn't it be used for shows like that?"

I can understand the situation some facilities are in when the work has a "seasonal" timeline having worked in that environment and had to be part of similar purchase decisions.

Once the work because for the season, they can't change horses. So even if FCPX were ideal with the next release, they'd be stuck where they are until next season. It then becomes a measure of value between staying with FCP7 for this season or moving to MC6. FCPX, since it's not ready now, even if it's great 8 weeks from now, has to be eliminated from a drop dead deadline decision that impacts the year.

BTW for the very reason is why I have no more trust in Avid (or any other company for that matter). Having dealt with the facility panic when Avid supposedly was leaving the Mac market. Suddenly, the season related work was a crisis budget decision that we had only a very short window to make a determination.

I know I do a lot of "crystal ball" here but do to current situations I don't trust Avid's decision making when I look at another possible scenario I haven't mentioned (besides Avid going under and parts being sold). I'll stop with that cliff hanger until someone pushes me to jump.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[Craig Seeman] "BTW for the very reason is why I have no more trust in Avid (or any other company for that matter). Having dealt with the facility panic when Avid supposedly was leaving the Mac market. Suddenly, the season related work was a crisis budget decision that we had only a very short window to make a determination."

Craig,

To be fair here, the reason Avid was dropping support for the Mac was because, once again, Apple had decided on it's own what it's users needed: which at that time was fewer slots. Avid needed more slots than Apple was going to give them on a closed system. Who's fault was that? Avid was already in a situation where it was having to develop expensive expansion chassis and all manner of work arounds to get their product to work on Macs.

I put the blame firmly on Apple for that debacle. Just as I put the blame on Apple for the lack of Flash support on their iThingies. Apple periodically gets a holier than thou attitude and it's up to the users and the vendors to remind them that they don't operate in a freaking vacuum.

Chris
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
Regarding the PCI slots, it seems the problem wasn't so insurmountable that Avid reversed its decision. If memory serves me Symphony was Windows only and remained such for some time. Eventually Avid developed it for Mac as well. So apparently the limited expansion slots wasn't the hurdle it appeared to be.
I guess the limited expansion slots limited the amount of proprietary stuff Avid could put in there for a time. Fortunately for facilities, Avid became a bit less proprietary with its hardware over time.

So given the two possible courses, Avid eventually moved in a direction more beneficial for the facilities. I have no sympathy for Avid's reasons to move away from the Mac as it would have forced facilities to pay tens of thousands of dollars (given Avid's upgrade pricing) for each seat. Outrageous and so the facilities responded with outrage. This was one small part that, as FCP later developed, facilities moved towards it. We benefit from that even today with the low cost an open hardware support of software based NLEs.

. . . and for this reason, if FCPX presents a value proposition down the road for facilities, if there's little in the cost of hardware, it can become integrated as one of a number of NLE options. The low cost of software NLEs has at least made both moves and/or multibrand NLE use, viable.

That said, I do not trust Avid. I can see them making the same decision again in their current financial state. That's the other course I think they may take in their current situation.

With no Mac only Final Cut Studio to compete against, I can see Avid dropping Mac development as a way to cut costs and focus on more flexibly configured Windows workstations. This may be for both Media Composer/Symphony and ProTools. Of course this may not be an immediate problem but the cost of moving to MC may also involve a hardware cost for a facility still using Macs. It may well be that a facility like Bunim/Murray has that in mind within the next couple of years as they decide to replace their MacPros.

This also is the challenge to Apple and FCPX if it wants to sell computers because the ripple effect goes beyond facility workstations. Even Thunderbolt may not be a "hold back" given Acer and Lenovo (at CES though) announced support.

Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Mike Cavanagh
couple answers: Bunim/Murray is using most of their existing infrastructure of MacPro systems, as well, their existing capture cards. Avid has opened up the media composer to work with 3rd party capture cards with version 6.0. I am more agnostic to the approach that a good editor can cut with anything, yet once you start looking at coordinating a high capacity production company with multiple productions with massive amounts of footage, the MediaComposer/Isis has some significant production efficiencies. Most, but not all of the larger unscripted programming in Hollywood is on Avid. You'd be surprised how many production companies have Unity with 25 seats of MediaComposer with close to twenty of those systems using MediaComposer software without the I/O.
Bunim/Murray went through a detailed and well thought out analysis around the change.

Mike Cavanagh
President/Founder
Key Code Media, Inc.
http://www.keycodemedia.com
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by phoenix studios
Great job COW on bringing relevant articles to the front! This one should be a must-read for all apple managers :)

Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Stephen Snow
This is a sorry excuse from Apple apologists. FCPX is a wrong way philosophical shift. It isn't missing features so much as trashing a paradigm. FCPX is a semi-linear editor, not a nonlinear editor. It is too clip centric.

Exactly.

http://www.dv-arts.com
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by larry towers
"Because when faced with a crushing deadline priorities are made. It doesn't mean those other things aren't happening it just means some very basic things had to get done first . . ."
This is a sorry excuse from Apple apologists. FCPX is a wrong way philosophical shift. It isn't missing features so much as trashing a paradigm. FCPX is a semi-linear editor, not a nonlinear editor. It is too clip centric.
+1
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Bill Davis
[larry towers] "FCPX is a wrong way philosophical shift. It isn't missing features so much as trashing a paradigm. FCPX is a semi-linear editor, not a nonlinear editor. It is too clip centric."


That's one opinion. And I think it's a totally wrong one.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that opinion is TOTALLY insupportable on the basic facts.

X allows file based editing in a totally "non-linear fashion." Period. To suggest otherwise is to completely miss-characterize it.

Clip centric? How exactly is Legacy any different? They both arrange clips on a timeline. You can shuffle and soft them. You can jump to any point in time in either. That makes both "non-linear" on the face. (Sorry, larry, but you don't get to "define" non-linear in your own terms - it's an accepted definition already.)

The major differences is that X gives the editor a well functioning database in addition to an editing environment. Also X provides the user a choice of working in the magnetic timeline with clip attractions or developing a workflow that is based on manipulation via the Position tool and Gap Clips that mirrors most of the functions of a traditional timeline except for the fact that in X, you have space prior to the ZERO point, where in Legacy you didn't.

Once you learn X. You can not just edit as rapidly, you can actually edit FASTER. That's my experience after six months or so. I shudder when I have to launch Legacy since it operates so much slower and clunkier. (and that's after having spent most of 10 years cutting in Legacy)

The truth is that you can't achieve a result in Legacy that I can't achieve in X. The only different is how we get there.

So I call total BS on this view.

I accept people who contend that package Y will do specific functions better than FCP-X - and those who point out it's less-developed feature set and specific capabilities that haven't shown up yet. But arguing that it's an insufficient or incompetent general purpose video editing tool - or even dumber that it's somehow less "non-linear" than it's competition is just flat out wrong.

Your MENTAL mileage may vary - but too many of us know the truth of this view to accept it.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor
-2
@Bill Davis
by larry towers
I think it's rather funny that FCP X apologists always come up with the stupid "it's a database" paradigm.
First of all if it is a database it is a badly designed database which violates basic rules of normalization. By clip centric I mean that the sequence really doesn't exist as it's own entity. Everything appears to be attached as an attribute to clips. If one were designing an object oriented database that would be understood as overloading. Consider an ecommerce system. What FCPx does essentially is stuff all the order information into the inventory database.
What is really annoying, when it is argued by people who have obviously had no programming experience, is that the database functionality could exist completely in harmony with a traditional timeline interface and withjout the ridiculous magnetic timeline. Only sheer incompetence or dishonesty posits one at the expense of the other.
And non-linear means you can cut and edit any place you want without having to place slugs in as fillers. The process in FCPx is essentially linear. A timeline that is essentially always in ripple mode. This is not "innovatve", it is very old and restrictive.

+1
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Steve Connor
[larry towers] "This is a sorry excuse from Apple apologists. FCPX is a wrong way philosophical shift. It isn't missing features so much as trashing a paradigm. FCPX is a semi-linear editor, not a nonlinear editor. It is too clip centric."

So wrong.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by John Kaley
I wonder if they ditched all their Mac hardware in the process.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
I'd love to know this as well since it's the computer sales that I think is most important to Apple.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Ben Wilson
[John Kaley] "I wonder if they ditched all their Mac hardware in the process."

If they are looking at DaVinci Resolve, they are still on the Apple hardware. Resolve is a MAC only product.

I was going to look at Resolve Lite to work with our AVID systems, but we are on Windows platforms and there is no Windows version. At least with the Resolve LITE software.

Ben Wilson
Engineering Project Manager
SCETV
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Ben Wilson] "If they are looking at DaVinci Resolve, they are still on the Apple hardware. Resolve is a MAC only product."

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?os=win&sid=3948&pid=4448&l...
DaVinci Resolve 8.2 for Windows is in public beta since early December.

Note
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/
Now available for Mac, Windows and Linux
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Ben Wilson
[Craig Seeman] "[Ben Wilson] "If they are looking at DaVinci Resolve, they are still on the Apple hardware. Resolve is a MAC only product."

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/detail/?os=win&sid=3948&pid=4448&l.....
DaVinci Resolve 8.2 for Windows is in public beta since early December.

Note
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/
Now available for Mac, Windows and Linux"


Thanks for the correction Craig.

Nice to know. I was not aware of this development. I see it just now happened. I based my previous ignorant statement on what I had seen back in November, shortly after MC6 was released.

Cheers! :)

Ben Wilson
Engineering Project Manager
SCETV
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by John Kaley
They also say they've switched to Symphony, which as you know, has more color correction tools built in. No mention of MC 6; which would make more sense in a DaVinci workflow.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by John Kaley
Oops...looks like they are using MC 6 too.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by David Roth Weiss
[John Kaley] "I wonder if they ditched all their Mac hardware in the process."

There's little reason to ditch their Mac hardware, at least not at this point, unless the majority of their Macs are obsolete.

Typically, no large organization with that many Macs in-house would dump them when switching to a platform agnostic application such as MC. It just makes no sense economically or otherwise.

If you look at the pix that Mark provided, the boxes are all from Avid, which indicates they are all Isis and other Avid hardware. Since Avid does not sell turnkey systems, you'd most likely be seeing stacks of HP boxes if BM was dumping all of its Apple computers.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Andy Neil
It's possible they bought a PC or two for their Symphony (Symphonies) systems since those will be for online, but I doubt that their Macs aren't going anywhere soon.

I mean, they just bought a ton of ISIS space to replace their XSAN environment. Can you imagine laying down for 100 new computers on top of that when their current computers can run MC6 just fine?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
Long term it seems this is good for Apple. Puts pressure on them to keep making X better, and I want it to be better which would be good for me : )

Competition good.

Monopoly bad.

On another note I smiled to myself when he talked about the use of "cheap consumer cameras" for broadcast. I'm old enough to remember when such a thing was scoffed at in the industry as "unprofessional"

Kind of ironic. hehehe
+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[tony west] "Long term it seems this is good for Apple. Puts pressure on them to keep making X better, and I want it to be better which would be good for me : )"

Key is whether Apple wants to compete in this market. I think they do long term. Apple's main short term risk is not facilities moving away from FCP but whether they move away from Mac. Of course any company that moves to Avid (or Premiere) has the opportunity to move to Windows with their next system upgrades.

This is Apple's window of opportunity. Both the NLE (FCPX) and the hardware (MacPro replacement) must be compelling. Apple must act before the window closes.

+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by tony west
[Craig Seeman] "Key is whether Apple wants to compete in this market. "

I hear you, but I thought he implied in the article that he had an early look at X

Why even go to this guy with your product if you don't care about him?

Why go to NAB?
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[tony west] "Why even go to this guy with your product if you don't care about him?"

I agree Tony. I think Apple's NAB SuperMeet preview and targeted showings indicate that Apple's marketing really does want the pro market.

Back to my oft repeated speculation in that, at the time, Apple had no idea they were going to pull FCS3 from the market so suddenly or, otherwise, found development was slower than they anticipated for FCPX or released sooner then they would have liked to.

More speculation but personally I think we'll see at least one more major update later this year beyond the one promised for early 2012. If they have an compelling product, the facilities still on Macs will have little reason not to purchase it, given the low price,.

That doesn't mean those who moved to Avid and Premiere will jump back but a few will find it a useful tool in their tool chest and it'll begin to creep back into use.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Joseph Owens
[tony west] "Why even go to this guy with your product if you don't care about him?

Why go to NAB?"


Delusions of a captive client, client-base? We have testaments that they even ignored their own beta-testers.

And although Apple did come to Las Vegas, it wasn't for the NAB exhibit show; they already hadn't been there for years, not since the first Final Cut Suite/COLOR rollout. Their purpose was to generate a webvert full of whooping SuperMeet fanbois, and as I recall, although there was a smattering of the usual Bible-tent "enthusiasm", an odd split seemed to develop in the room as the presentation went on. I don't think they got what they wanted.

Personally, I thought the presenters had merely neglected to read their own manual with some of the new, revolutionary processes they were describing already available or easily attainable in FCP7. LIke the left hand had no idea what the right was up to. There were a number of technical glitches, even though it was sort of explained away as only a demo of the partitions that had been locked. Oh well, it was just beta software, whatever, and appears to remain so.

What I thought was ironic about the Supermeet was that the big door prize that attracted the majority of raffle ticket sales was the full-on Resolve system, which the organizers wisely partitioned off into its own category.

Its probably not worth mentioning, but the left hand side of the Supermeet audience, which seemed to exhibit the coolest reception to FCX, did not win one single prize from the overall raffle. Coincidence?

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
I think Randy Ubillos of FCP legacy is the same Randy Ubillos of FCPX.
I think they are genuinely interested in the "pro" market.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Craig Seeman] "I think they are genuinely interested in the "pro" market."

Which "pro" market, the Bunim/Murray pro market or the Bill Davis pro market?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Herb Sevush] "Which "pro" market, the Bunim/Murray pro market or the Bill Davis pro market?"

Both. Being interested in the market doesn't mean they can support it yet.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[Craig Seeman] "Both. Being interested in the market doesn't mean they can support it yet."

That's a bit like my saying I'm interested in my girlfriend and Scarlett Johansson. I may be "interested" in both, but we know which one I'm buying flowers for.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Herb Sevush] "That's a bit like my saying I'm interested in my girlfriend and Scarlett Johansson"

Apple asked Scarlett Johansson out and obviously didn't get the date. That doesn't mean they're not going to try again and remember to take a shower and brush their teeth first before attempting that kiss. And yes the problem with second chances is a valid criticism but they're going to try.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by jason levy
Hey,

Apple has billions in cash sitting around and they can be as interested as they want in anything they want to be. I think it's pretty clear that they are not going after the "pro" market with much interest or intensity.

I'm in pretty much the same position as Mark.. I've got to figure out how our company is going to get through the next few years. Apple is not making any commitment to anything specific.. just "improving" the product and Avid is 100% up front that the high end pro workflow is their main business.

I don't blame them. When who wants to sell sticky tricky editing software to a few thousand people when you can sell iPhone and Apple TVs to millions of people. They know what their business is. Smart decision. It just sucks for our company. No way to commit to a pig in a poke and that's all they are offering for the moment.

jason

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by David Lawrence
[Craig Seeman] "I think Randy Ubillos of FCP legacy is the same Randy Ubillos of FCPX.
I think they are genuinely interested in the "pro" market."


Completely ignoring all beta tester feedback and the workflow needs of your most sophisticated professional users is a funny way to show interest.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
+1
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[David Lawrence] "Completely ignoring all beta tester feedback and the workflow needs of your most sophisticated professional users is a funny way to show interest."

Because when faced with a crushing deadline priorities are made. It doesn't mean those other things aren't happening it just means some very basic things had to get done first . . . and even some of those aren't "finished" yet. Just because some things haven't happened yet doesn't meant they aren't. Watching a single frame in a feature film doesn't tell you the ending and may not even tell you the story.

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Conlee
[Craig Seeman] "I think they are genuinely interested in the "pro" market."

I agree, Craig. I think they WANT the pro market, but I think their arrogance caused them to jump the shark a bit. Apple is accustomed to dictating what the market desires, and in this case they flat out forgot that this mature market REQUIRES certain features, whether Apple wants to provide them or not. A rare misfire on Apple's part, and they're going to pay the price for it in the Broadcast market.

They're not going to cry too many alligator tears, they'll definitely make it up in volume at the other end.

Chris
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
[Chris Conlee] "I think their arrogance caused them to jump the shark a bit"

I'm not sure it was arrogance so much as bad management decisions ranging from marketing to FCP7 being suddenly pulled, unlike any other Apple EOL in recent history. Even iWeb and iDVD got maintenance updates after they were EOL and were still available from the Online store in the physical disc package.

[Chris Conlee] "in this case they flat out forgot that this mature market REQUIRES certain features"

Which probably could not be done at the point they decided to or had to release FCPX. That's my key point. They certainly could have delayed the release . . . but they didn't. Either a bad management decision or some circumstance forced them (as I've said is possible before).

Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Mike Jeffs
[Joseph Owens] "Its probably not worth mentioning, but the left hand side of the Supermeet audience, which seemed to exhibit the coolest reception to FCX, did not win one single prize from the overall raffle. Coincidence?"

My favorite qoute from that night was a guy by me yelling "OUR SIDE HASN"T WON ANYTHING" i qoute that all the time now. it was a good time :)

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Herb Sevush
[tony west] "Why go to NAB?"

I've heard many knowledgeable people speculate that they went to NAB to warn companies what they were up to. I don't buy that myself, I don't think they care enough to warn anyone. I think they went for the "buzz" and to show off their new baby that they were so proud of. I don't think they knew how out of touch they were/are - they're "skating to where the puck is going to be" and don't have the time or inclination to see where the rest of us are going or whether we are playing the same game at all.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf
+2
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Craig Seeman
This is Avid's target market if it's going to survive its financial problems.

Avid must sell Isis and/or Unity hardware based on their current business model.

I think making sales like this are far more important than a bunch of "single seat" switchers since MC sales, by itself, probably doesn't bring in enough revenue, especially when one considers the software development costs.

This is also a good example of where Apple's silence hurts them. It's one thing to be silent about "exclusive features" (and there's a cost to that as well, unfortunately), but to be silent about features that competitors already have means there's little motive for a facility to wait (if they can wait at all).

If Apple plans on integrating shared media management features, they could certain say as much without revealing details if they feel there would be a cost to a competitive advantage. Otherwise one can interpret Apple's silence as "they have nothing to say or offer" on a feature.

Ultimately, I think, Apple should be concerned about how this impacts sales of their computers. While 50 - 100 seats of FCPX may mean little to Apple. 50 - 100 sales of Mac (MacPros?) vs Windows has to begin to weigh. The domino effect goes beyond the facility computer purchases as editors, assistants make their home and mobile computer choices (the loss of MacBookPro and iMac sales).

Apple is the third leading Computer maker in the USA now (behind HP and Dell). This is COMPUTER, not iOS devices. It was the only major manufacturer to have a significant increase in sales last quarter as it turns out the holiday shopping season saw a decline in computer sales. I can't help but think if FCPX fails, the ripple effect will impact on MBP and iMac sales as well. I'm not predicting doom at all but a small pea down a mountain can turn into an avalanche.

+1
@Craig Seeman
by Ty Wood
"Ultimately, I think, Apple should be concerned about how this impacts sales of their computers. While 50 - 100 seats of FCPX may mean little to Apple. 50 - 100 sales of Mac (MacPros?) vs Windows has to begin to weigh."

Their MacPros? Not sure about that, haven't the hints been that the MacPro line is 'no longer particularly profitable' and there's rumors that it's on the chopping block?

From another standpoint, okay Apple's behind HP & Dell in PC sales -- and HP wants to spin off their PC business for similar profitability reasons.

Compared to the all the iStuff, both FCPX and even Mac computers are dwarfed. Apple's efforts are more focused on trying to not let the Android stuff become Windows round 2... open versus closed. The future of Apple is greatly dependent on this. Compared to that battle, I'm not sure anything else "really" matters for them right now.

When you do some digging, hasn't it been Apple's aim for decades, all through all of these computers and laptops when the technology wasn't there yet, to ultimately put everything into a tablet size? I personally think there's a bigger goal for FCPX, and maybe it's not on personal computers.
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Stephen Snow
W Premiere CS5 ever looked at in the process?
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Shane Ross
Premiere is actually worse than FCP when it comes to multiple editor workflows and offline/online editing. BMP has very specific needs, and those include converting the footage to a low data rate "offline resolution" codec, and the converting only what is used in the cuts to full res during the online phase. Premiere doesn't do that...it doesn't have it's own codecs...no offline codec, no online codec. It deals with footage natively. And even natively the file sizes and data rates are too big.

The workflow Mark and BMP use is something that Avid was designed to do from the start. It's at the core of what it does, and that's why it does it well.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
Re: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Kevin Monahan
[Shane Ross] "Premiere is actually worse than FCP when it comes to multiple editor workflows and offline/online editing. BMP has very specific needs, and those include converting the footage to a low data rate "offline resolution" codec, and the converting only what is used in the cuts to full res during the online phase. Premiere doesn't do that...it doesn't have it's own codecs...no offline codec, no online codec. It deals with footage natively. And even natively the file sizes and data rates are too big."

We know that we have some improvement to do in multiple editor workflows. That said, we have customers all over the world editing in shared project environments, some are quite large broadcast enterprises with many more seats than BMP. http://www.adobe.com/solutions/broadcasting.html

Best of luck to Mark in his new post environment. Having toured there, I am quite sure they'll still be using Adobe tools in their workflow.

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!
+1
@Kevin Monahan
by Biagio Messina
Would love to talk to you sometime, Kevin. We run Joke Productions, Inc. and recently cut MTV's CAGED on FCP. While keeping with FCP (7, not X) makes most sense for now, we have a keen eye toward Premiere. Hope multi-cam with more than 4 cameras (we've had well over 20) and shared workflow enhancements, along with nameable markers are in CS6.

AVID is terrific for scripted. We make reality, news, and doc. That means tons of compositing in the timeline -- and that's a pain in AVID. Would love you guys to be a viable alternative...especially since I'm a 10 year After Effects user.
Best,
Biagio

Hands-on Producer? Pitch us your TV ideas:
http://www.jokeandbiagio.com/we-want-to-make-a-tv-show-with-you
Re: Article: Real World Editing: From Avid to FCP and Back Again
by Chris Harlan
Great to hear it from the horse's mouth. Thank you very much!


Related Articles / Tutorials:
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
FCPX On Air. Coming Soon

FCPX On Air. Coming Soon

Former skeptic John Davidson was right there with everyone else when FCPX was released who deemed it a complete disappointment for broadcast pros. Many updates and much experimentation later, he's now a believer: he has FCPX not only running on shared storage for broadcast work, but for John, it does so even better than FCP 7 ever did. Here he introduces a 5-part series, taking you step-by-step from project set-up to delivery, ready to help other broadcast pros get moving with FCPX.

Editorial, Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
Workflow Update: iMac, Adobe & the X Factor

Workflow Update: iMac, Adobe & the X Factor

With five edit suites currently running at Biscardi Creative Media, and four more on standby, Walter Biscardi and crew need the best possible performance our of their workflow and machines. Here, Walter describes the power (yes, power) of the iMac, the workhorse Adobe Premiere Pro, and some never say never insight on FCP X.

Editorial, Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
Smoke: A Journey and a Look Ahead

Smoke: A Journey and a Look Ahead

An FCP user and enthusiast since version 1.0, David Jahns looks at Autodesk Smoke for Mac, and discusses color-grading, tracking, editing, compositing and overall performance.

Editorial
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
High Noon in the Editors' Corral

High Noon in the Editors' Corral

A group of editors gathered at a Hollywood Post Alliance Sales Resource Group luncheon to debate the merits of today's nonlinear editing systems. In the process, they argued less over tools and complained more about an ever-changing workflow. And, yes, there are a few fans of FCPX.

Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
For your Bovine Mastication and Consideration: FCPX Can Work

For your Bovine Mastication and Consideration: FCPX Can Work

After coming across and commenting on a post in the forums concerning FCPX and its current popularity and possibility for serious editing use, Charlie Austin was contacted by Tim Wilson to expand his original thoughts for Bovine consumption. Care to chew the cud with us?

Editorial
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
A Cautionary Tale for the FCP Switcher

A Cautionary Tale for the FCP Switcher

Herein lies the cautionary tale of a long-time user of Final Cut Pro, penned for those who would consider switching NLEs. Are there tools that will positively replace FCP 7? Are there NLEs that are even more powerful than our now evanescent favorite?

Editorial
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
Colorgrading Round-Up

Colorgrading Round-Up

Dennis Kutchera went to Vegas with a goal - to be tantalized by the new colour-grading options - in essence, to cheat on his beloved Avid. What happens in Vegas, this time, comes back with some great stories.

Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
Confessions of a Creative Maniac: Unified Theory of Media

Confessions of a Creative Maniac: Unified Theory of Media

Convenience is more important than quality -- I've taught a couple of generations of students that understanding this basic reality is a great way to predict just about any future media trend, and in the case of NAB, it looks like the equation has not lost a molecule of relevance.

Editorial, Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
Confessions of an NAB Virgin

Confessions of an NAB Virgin

This is no ordinary NAB recap. This isn't a collection of thoughts about products and software. This is the confession of a small-town starry-eyed NAB virgin, and the adventures and anxieties she finds herself in.

Feature
Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate
What a Long, Strange Year It's Been!

What a Long, Strange Year It's Been!

Apple imploding. Adobe ascending. Avid opening up. Who could have seen it coming? Here's Walter's look at what happens when the blinders come off.

Feature, People / Interview
MORE


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]